Yesterday's Weapons Forums

which was brought on by my listening to Rush Limbaugh yesterday. He said that there is no warming trend in Alaska. He cited that there is this effect called the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, a trend of the ocean currents that causes a periodic, natural adjustment of the climate temperature up and down over a period of decades.

True or False?

good question , what do you think chip ? based on your observations over the years , i know we go through cycles here - about every seven years or so it swings up then down but not uniform or predictable , and i doubt al gore can affect it

A fact that was brought up about the Arctic ice melting..........the Antarctic ice is growing! How come we never hear about that from Al Gore ?

just a guess ....it doesnt support his lie ?

I will Kick Rush Limbaghs A$$ if he says that to my face.

The last downward in temps trend was the "Little Ice age", from the 1400's to 1995. The Cold trend got the Norse out of Greenland (which they think may have been Green with vegitation in the warmer period of Eric the Red.It also Changed Alaska Drasticly, and we had a cultural change here....we changed from "Ipiutak Culture" to "Thule culture" with the colder climate, Its been all up hill from there, as were now "Western Culture". I'm not complaining, as long as we prosper. .
Actually thinking here....I wonder if we will have to adapt to this culturally too? The Culture changes are marked by the total absence of people in the archology record here, and then an emergence of radicly different ways of making a living....(I better buy more .22LR)

CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL. (See the Period??!!)

My winter is a Month overdue, my spring came three weeks Early(!!) this year.
The Caribou migration is here, also a month late.
And do you see me posting Seal pictures?? Nope, the ice is "Just " forming and the Seals that live and sleep (They are Mammels) wont arrive untill the ice does, with the exception of a few strays, but the fish have schooled past already, so who knows what that will ammount to.

Were adapting, and dying.
Sandpipers are gone,(I dont think I saw one at all this Summer) no Walrus passing by , no Fall time whales, very little Seal hunting.
The Ocean is in real trouble, no shit.
The oceans temps are the problem, right down to not holding enough oxygen to keep up production.....The Bering sea is warming too, alot.

Our permafrost is melting, opening huge holes in the ground, and blowing out hillsides in mud slides.
Lakes are drying up, or just dissapearing, absorbed into the ground. Good for Mammoth hunting....
This summers Looooooong heat and shine has the plants all up and lush, so we look forward to plenty of feed for the land animals

I'll tell you about the ice, here; weve had a storm for 3 days, from the North. Windy and Cold.Slush from the slightly above 0' temps has accumulated, and blown to shore. Its a 3 mile wide swath against the South side of the Sound. Its congeled into a rubbery mess, and should solidify in the next few days....our waves are semi solid now.....We usuallly dont freeze up that way, but it seems to have the desired effect
I should be riding all over, and going hunderds of miles to take my kids to Basketball Tournaments around Thanks giving, visiting and hunting... Sure aint gonna happen this year.

The earth has done it before, and Im sure its a cycle, but its not easy.

Were adapting, for sure, but its alot like putting a blindfold on, and going about your business in your own house. You may know the place well, but your gonna trip, bump, crash and wonder "WTF??!!" Alot.

We get ALOT of questions, interviews, as well as scientific feed back, to our communitys, so this is a constant subject.

..I heard the same show.........he says 'they' say it 'averages out-the heat/cold....he's usually spot on ,and if he puts out anything innacurate,he corrects it......of course-if you're where its melting,hes wrong....and if you're where its cold-he's right....or at least the folks with the details on the Oscillations..he's just passing the info on-and I tend to believe it.....it make sense on a planetary time scale-....now pleeeez-lets not start a "global warming"/"climate change " bru-ha-ha......25 years ago the "doom and gloomers" said it was "ice age" time again...

I think Mausermeister has the only "Debateble " poit.

Human caused or not, thats the debatable question.

I offer thus; Humans are part of Nature, Its a natural thing.

Weather were a large percentage of it, its only opinion.

We cant stop it.

M-14 is right about poulation, though he may have to shoot me someday....
'Cause if Im munching Soilent Green Snacks....
Well, truly, if I AM eating people, I will have NO friends, and you really wouldnt want to be around me.
I have a morbid, though well founded humor, and "Meat is Meat".
The last BIG starvation here was in 1883, and theres plenty of people Im related to, and my wifes Grand mother was alive then, one of three out of a family of eight, that got by on the bodys of the dead. Heard the storys that were told to my 104 year old father inlaw, from his mom, who lived it.
Theres actualy 3 books, a series "The Lore of the Inupiaq" that has first hand acconts of that and more.
Something drastic like that is sobering, from this far end of the supply line.

i agree that the earth is experiencing global warming [at least in general] i wont deny that just as i wont deny the ice ages major and mini ,

i will debate the human factor , we have produced more polutants enmass in other times , i will debate the need for population controle / ill fool you - i think perhaps it should be , but by choice not by any government edict , either ours or globaly , it will lead directly to the mercy killing of the old/sick/invalid/and poor , im not going to suport that sorry ,
i did buy into the 60-70s self limits of reproducing ourselves and not the huge families that ancestors had , but obviously i was not alone the US is not poroducing people in general above that level , but third world countries are - would it be right to forcibly cut them back to 2.5 children per family of two ? who wants to execute that order ?

what the current politico want to acomplish by their "global warming" approach is to afix blame to those who have and apply taxes and fees to raise cash - sorry im not going with that eather - wont solve a problem other than their banking practises , its not a solution to "BUY CREDITS" its a feel good thing for those who apply symbolism over substance , i appluad any conservation measure equally applied - on john kerry just like joe the tax payer , and that has to be applied accross the globe if its going to work ,

so give me positive measures that the rich cant escape and the poor can live with , ill consider them ,

otherwise we must adapt to the changing world just like we have at every other change or cease to exist - its that simple , taxes fix nothing

Just a question, to a good post, ASquare...

Do you not think that, naturally, the Earths population will peak and decline, again?
The Etheopians Mayans, the Egyptions, Eskimos, Irish, China...even our "Dust Bowl" depression days saw severe malnutrition... ect...have all experianced climaticly induced population changes? Die offs and starvations are well recorded, but Im of the opinion that were still expanding, eating it all up, cutting it down and paving it over with insectacides and fertalizers.
With modern transportation, land management and such, do you think the world could handle just one years crop failures?
In the past ,people did have "more " kids as a rule, but alot more died young too.
Govornment population controls , killing the old infirm, retatrded isnt gonna help, I just cant think of how we can help ourself, how we, as a planet, are gonna reduce ourselfs without conflict involved.....other than .22LR in large quantitys...

I think the "Scare" is blown outta proprtion by those looking to profit, wether in tax's or selling books.
It sems to me , were headed for a natural downsizing, natures way of balancing things.

i forgot about the book revenues - good point indeed ,

yes , i too am aware of the historic rise and decline and that may well be what is playing out , but just as we humans tend to think of ourselves as indestructible when we are young there is an age of realisation that dawns on most of us and perhaps thats where we are getting to here , i think if we are on the decline as a society we will go down kicking and screeming , fighting it all the way ,
my thought here is that anyone who sees solutions in terms of dollars and cents will be a bigger part of the problem and not part of the solution , those that expend energy on real solutions like better fuels and less poluting lifeaids will be contributing ,

i think there is a real possibility that those who live in natures path may have to move , and to feed ourselves we may need new methods[not to say the old fashioned 22 wont be a direct answer] and there may need to be some very real discussions with those who insist that to dominate they must overpopulate , but these are far bigger things than al gore is addressing with a tax or fee , and if he wants to be part of the solution he needs to really look at the problem

it may take some govenment actions , but a push to hydrogen makes more sence than ethanol , and discussions with third world counties on how they might eliminate disease and feed themselves will go further than al trading credits for using his jets ,

in my mind seeing someoone stand in front of congress crying over a change in their culture and society[who could truely care less except how much it can raise in taxes] means less than someone like yourself adjusting your life to provide for your family and training your kids to do the same ,
ive changed my eating habits over the years to accomadate the health issues ive encountered , the government passing a law reguarding mcdonalds food has no influence on me there , and if they raise taxes on cigaretes and fatty foods it wont change my habbits - only i can do that ,
if the govenment blames global warming on SUVs and US citizens flying accross the country it wont change global warming - no matter how much the tax it , eliminating every SUV wont change it eather , its happening lets addapt

Here's a link to a Washington Post article that states that Antarctic ice is melting away at an annual rate of 36 CUBIC miles per year. This is based on research from two NASA satellites that continually map the entire continent of Antartica. The trend over many years is a reduction of the overall mass of ice in Antarctica, but some scientists have shown that in a few areas, the ice mass is expanding and the climate has gotten colder. They do not know the reason for this regional difference. It could be some anomaly set off by the warming trend elsewhere.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01712.html

I say "RIGHT ON!!! Guys.

My point entirly, we shall adapt, as we naturally will. Social, political, climactic and "earth" changes are a part of it all, but its our Human instinct, the position we hold as the top predator that will dictate the way we do survive.
Animals (Yes, me too) either dump lots of kids on this world, or eliminate the compitition.
Often both, as survival mechanisims. That can get ugly, either way it plays out.
Limit some recourses, food, oil, fish or "Labensrom"( ) and people just fight. Never seen it any other way.

I fully belive in self relization, and self responsibility.
I pick up my trash, and I move my camps around, so as to lesson my impacts in my small way, even hunting and "making" my own meat eliminates packaging....
Al Gore makes a thousand, maby more times more $$ than I every year, so I just cant understand "Why" he can buy more carbon Credits than I....Hahhahahahahahaha But I sure aint read his "Plan" i.e., Book either!!!
To me he's another , "do as I say, not as I do", POS......what a fine example, eh?

The waters rising.....maby its good I didnt buy a house here, on this seaside sandspit.
I'll rent untill I load the boat and drive away

Good read, GSchwertly!, Antarctica has its "bipolar" problem too and all that water is going somewhere....."Up" as we say here.

chip , if this link works this is the thinking i was illuding to in my comments about population controle - you see the mentality of those that would implement such a process and the total lack of humanity involved
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/ ... TE=DEFAULT
and this is a current topic elsewhere here as well as a newsitem - he believed[or professed] himself the implement of natural selection ,