Yesterday's Weapons Forums

Any markings on it?

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Sporterized Martini 14 ga shotgun? SW

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Slava Ukraini!!

Looks like a sporterized Martini with the safety similar to a greener installed on the left hand side. Also the breech block pin has been replaced with something oversized?

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It's 5 o'clock and it's watermelon time.....................
because you can't drink beer & load rockets - TXPete

If you look you can see the picture has been flipped. You are looking at the right side.

Rad

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thanks for posing those. I have been racking my brain on this one.
What is the manufacturer's name again?

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It's 5 o'clock and it's watermelon time.....................
because you can't drink beer & load rockets - TXPete

The receiver looks a bit different from the standard , cutdown or designed from scratch to provide far more access to the breech at the cost of reduced action strength. Plenty of mass there for the lower pressures of shotshells though.

There were many examples of military rifle actions heavily modified to adapt them to use as shotguns, but this looks more purpose made.
The barrel looks like it is far too big in dia to be fitted to the standard rifle receivers of this type.
I'm guessing a sporting model rather than a sporterized military action.
Looks like its of good quality.

If I've got the scale right it could be a Ten or even an Eight gauge. Sometimes a smaller gauge would be built on a frame meant for the larger gauges to allow an extra margin of strength. check the last six inches of bore at the muzzle for signs of shallow rifling rather than a choke. The "Paradox Bore" shotguns were very useful in Africa where the same gun might have to be used for everything from birds to Cape Buffalo.

martinis have been converted to 22s and shotguns as well as being 'made as'

much resemblance to my 12ga trap gun as ive mentioned elsewhere

I could have sworn I had a post here. Seems to have disappeared?

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"The great object is, that every man be armed."
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....Naj puška govori!....
.............deplorable typical "bitter clinger"....

I found two similar rifles in GUNS OF THE WORLD. A "Baby Sporting Martini" by Fields of London and another by "Dublin Arms Depot". Various calibers - value estimated at around $200... whenever the book was published. SW

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Slava Ukraini!!

Well comparing the profile of the 12 gauge converted Martini of 10 square's post to the thread starter shotgun its obviously not a conversion, but rather purpose made for a large bore comparative to the size of the action.
The receiver at the point where the barrel screws in is much larger, so much so that the hinge pin sits lower in relation to the centerline of the bore.
The breech block and internals may have come from the rifle caliber Martini, refitted to the purpose made receiver body.

I supose a standard action body might have been modded by welding extra material then machining to final form, but it would have been just as easy and safer to cut a new receiver from slab stock.

The stock has a Belgian look to it. Could be a Pakistani made piece for that matter, some of their sporting arms are fairly nicely made.

He mentioned to me that it was stamped as "National Arms Company" so I don't think it is a Khyber special.

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It's 5 o'clock and it's watermelon time.....................
because you can't drink beer & load rockets - TXPete

_________________


NRA Benefactor Member
AMA Life Member
Tri-State Gun Collectors Life Member

According to "the Rifle Story" Martini actions could be purchased from the "National Arms and Ammunition Company Ltd." They apparently supplied actions to British Gunmakers, along with other companies such as BSA and LSA.
I haven't found any guns manufactured by the US "National Arms" co. other than pocket pistols.

National Arms and Ammunition Company was located in Sparkbrook, Birmingham, and made Martini actions for the british guntrade. Some South African made Martini actioned sporting guns were built from unfinished National Arms manufactured Martini actions

With no visible proof marks the gun might be tough to sell, as anything but a wall hanger at least.
Have you looked under the wood yet?

Establishing just when and by whom the gun was manufactured could greatly increase its value.

As for the possibility of it being a Pakistan made gun , the markings you have fopund don't rule this out, since faked markings are common to such pieces.
Theres also quite a lot of custom work done in that region, with older guns rebuilt from various salvaged parts.
The action may have come from a British made Musket or shotgun that had been scrapped and heavily moddified and rebuilt for some local hunter. The type of wood used for the stock might tell you more about its origins.

At this point , since I have found reprinted catalog adverts for Belgian made Martini actioned rifles, the style of the stock and checking still make Belguim a likely candidate.
Such shotguns were exported all over the world in those days, with every variety of action type represented.

What's not working on it? If it is a bit sticky you can clean that up no problem. If it's an antique send it here & I'll get her working for you. Save the $ mate. I can send it back with no paperwork (antique). It looks like you are abble to open & close the action, at least from the pictures. I would slip a piece of paper in & close the breach. Test fire to see if there is a hole or indentation from the firing pin. If it is just the sticky bolt I would take that puppy down (take pics with a digi cam while doing it if need be so you can re assemble) & clean it up. Try copper or brass wool & oil on the offending parts. Check to see if there is any warpage or crushing of the receiver. The action doesn't appear to be overly complicated

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It's 5 o'clock and it's watermelon time.....................
because you can't drink beer & load rockets - TXPete

EXCELLENT!!!! I will search around to see if there are Brass shells available. We can get you a few & see if you can make that old beast breath fire again!

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It's 5 o'clock and it's watermelon time.....................
because you can't drink beer & load rockets - TXPete

I don't doubt you already know that shot shell lengths were in general much shorter when the gun you have was new.
Be sure to ascertain the exact dimensions of your chamber before obtaining ammunition for it.

There are still sources for the extra short 12 gauge hulls, and probably short case ten gauge hulls, and you can probably trim modern hulls to whatever length is most suitable.

The action looks to be a strong design, and for the most part shot shells generate pressures no higher than the old BP musket cartridges used by the Martini rifles.
No telling what this particular gun has been exposed to though, so I'd test fire it remotely for at least three shots then check the empties.

I really do NOT know BUT it looks Belgium and if I had to bet I would say it was. Does it have an ELG proof mark in an oval? I think that Henry Peiper made ones the same or similar. I have been offered these in 12g shotgun now and again so they are not exactly scarce. I dont collect shotguns so have never taken them.

There is a 12 gauge that looks like this listed on P&S guns and militaria. It even has a schnabel fore end.