Yesterday's Weapons Forums

I own a few 19th century firearms in various grades of condition. They are all shootable and I reload my own cartridges for them. I use the '40% of the original black' formula and have great results with IMR 4198. Unique is the other powder I use in my rifles. Gas checked lead is all I use in the rifles and I keep the velocities in the 1500 to 1800 FPS range. This is according to what I read, as I do not have a chronograph. I prefer 'less than full' loads to save wear and tear on the guns and me. I shoot these guns for recreation, but, if I ever chose to hunt with them, I would carefully work up my loads. I have no problem using proper smokeless charges in my blackpowder cartridge firearms. I also use RST and Polywad shells in my composite barreled shotguns. Cheers!

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GMC(SW), USN-Retired
USS San Diego
USS Missouri
USS Boxer
NAS Whidbey Island

Its nice to see this posting is still active,, Yes, Roundsworth,, I am not shure what you ment by using 40% blackpowder? are you mixing it, or is that your top load..?
I haven't done anything with this this 1888/90 lately, but I am going to try lead loads soon, do you load up or down when using lead verses jacketed?
stayed with IMR 4350 mostly on this because it is a low pressure load..

Shootster, a few years ago, Ross Seyfried started writing about his experiences with working up 'Nitro for Black' loadings for British sporting cartridges. Ross multiplied the original charge of black by .40 (40%) to arrive at a starting point for IMR 4198. For instance, the original charge for the 11.15x60R Mauser was 77 grains of black with a 380 grain bullet. Multiply 77 by .40 to come up with 30.8 as a charge of IMR 4198. It is a great load with low pressure and it is still a thumper. Based on all the load charts I could find, this formula works quite well for the 19th century large capacity BP cases. It may not be gospel for all of them, but it works well for my uses. I use IMR 3031 for cast loads in bottlenecked milsurps like the 303 British, 7.5x54 and the 8x58R. A starting load of 24 grains with a GC lead bullet of the proper weight comparable to the original jacketed bullet does the job quite well. I do not have a chronograph, but the difference in felt recoil between my plinking loads and full power loads is dramatic! I have a 4 page article by C.E. Harris that gave me the 'go ahead' on the cast loads for the modern bottlenecked milsurps. 'Google' his name and you will find it. As with all handloads and antique/well used firearms, be cautious!

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GMC(SW), USN-Retired
USS San Diego
USS Missouri
USS Boxer
NAS Whidbey Island

I want to thank you for your info. I have been reloading for many years, but was allways following preprinted tested and safe for anyone to follow rules, only in the last few years have I started shooting Milsurps. and started to climbe out side of the major writen manuels, because they just don't cover the relics like the styer's very well, if at all, so I study simular case size and bore size's till my teeth hurt. then I started to make a choice and then first shot was hiding under a picnic table,,,, then proceded to inspect case and then chronigraph my loads and work from there.
the only problem I encounted is I have more trouble with Remintons 9 1/2 primers not having enough heat to ignite these milsurps and some times getting powder burns on my forehead. even thought the gun checked out, this seems to have gone away on my Carcano with Mag. primers, but not all manuels tell you to use mag. primers but only on certain loads.. So I am going to start over with my steyr's with mag. primers. but anyway, I am going to look into this info you left me and digest it and see how it go's ....

I just tried some cast loads and I only seated them at the first ogive, all bullets are 330 dia. pushed in to a .323 sizing die and bullet seat. and they all cycled through and I only used 36.5grns of IMR 4350 with standard primers I should use mag primers but I did not. all fired flawlessly and with mild recoil and not so good and the accuracy end I did not cronagraph these loads as I will try somthing more later.
I am waiting for my local sportshop to get me some Trail Boss to try in a few different loads and see how it does.....

I recently aquired a 8x50R barrel that is in pristine condition for a M95 so I think this will be a better test bed, but I still want to keep most of my loads capable for my 1888 model.. I have some Trail boss now so soon I will do some more tests.

Certainly keep us posted. I am curious as to how the trail boss does.

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It's 5 o'clock and it's watermelon time.....................
because you can't drink beer & load rockets - TXPete

update,, I just tried TrailBoss in my 1888/90 long rifle,,,, I tested it in my M95 first its a short rifle\ I tried 15, 20, 25 grns be weight I got 1300, 1350, 1390, this was a 8x56R,,.. None showed high pressure of any kind.. So I went and loaded 205grn.Lead pellet .330 dia. with 15grns. of TrailBoss in my 1888/90 Long Rifle and was pleased with getting 1400 FPS. was not great with accuracy but I was on target with a spread of about 6 inchs at about 40 Yards,, could go higher on the load..

I am really starting to like trail boss it takes up so much room that I have started to load it by volume instead of by weight. I just loaded it so it takes up the whole case by volume which is about 60 on my volume black powder scale it I did not chronagrah it but it shoots nice with a lead 205grn pellet....
and the case showed no sign of pressure at all. and it sealed perfectly.

What kind of groupings were you getting with this load?

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It's 5 o'clock and it's watermelon time.....................
because you can't drink beer & load rockets - TXPete

I know this is the most important question after establishing that it seals and has no high pressure indicators,,, sorry right now I only shot freehand at about 50 yards two rounds and they were about six inchs apart... I still think the velosity may not be high enough to get good accuracy. I mold the bullets my self an have not sized them and I used a .330 dia. bullet. I may try a compressed load later when the sun is higher and I plan to cronagraph them. and other cal. loads as well.

I just played around again with trail boss and a 205 lead bullet and I chronigraphed it around 1400 fps. with filling the brass up to the top of the neck, I don't even weigh the powder anymore, I just use a blackpowder scale I like this powder for plinking ......

just tried something again, and its too hot,, I used Alliant Black MZ using a black powder volume scale @ 60grns. and a 205 hard Lead pellet .330 dia. I just shot 1740fps. too fast for Lead no accuracy. got to load down.

just lowered my load to 50grns. of Black MZ and cronied it around 1550fps. accuracy just got better..