Yesterday's Weapons Forums

This thread was formerly 'seeking armorer'

I spoke with Roland Beaver (former Marine Match Armorer) who described what to look for on my rifle.

We already know the receiver is welded up from a demilitarized M1. The barrel is also salvaged with a four groove surplus 03-A3 barrel. Mr. Beaver advised me that the rifle was unsafe to fire. He said the barrel would probably last for awhile, but for how long would be anybody's guess.

What I have left are correct WWII parts in excellent shape and a wall hanger receiver with barrel.

Photos of what to look for to detect a composite barrel can be seen at: http://www.fulton-armory.com/Weld.htm

I do not like being a victim, so will permanently mark this barrel and receiver so nobody else gets stung.

My son and I are going to the CMP North on the 7th and the OGCA show in Wilmington, OH anyway, so will see if anything turns up.

Regards,

Richard

Good info to know! I made this a stickie

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When i spoke with Mr. Beaver, he told me that several outfits were assembling M1 rifles from welded receivers and surplus parts. He said the parts were usually substandard, meaning they could be used to make the rifle fire, but certainly lent nothing to making it optimal.

He said he had seen many of these rifles, and every one had head space issues that could not be corrected.

If you find an M1 at a gun show or private seller, unless it has DCM or CMP documentation with it, suggest you inspect it carefully before handing over any $$$.

Once again: http://www.fulton-armory.com/Weld.htm is at least one website to visit for a better education on these rifles. If any of you find another site, please share the information.

Regards,

Richard

sorry to hear this happened to you , but glad to know you caught it tho , and looks like you got some really good information in the process , thanks for shareing it

Thanks Square 10. If I had not caught it and eventually offered the rifle for sale, someone else would be stuck with it. That would leave us with several possibilities:

You or some other innocent buyer might have eventually ended up with it and discovered what it was, and I would take it back;

A potential buyer might have caught it while inspecting it before paying, and leave a real shadow on my credibility.

Either way, I am stuck with it. I couldn't live with looking the other way while I handed the rifle off to its new owner, knowing what it really is.

Besides, most of us played tag when we were kids. Somebody always had to be 'it'. This is my turn.

Cheers,

Richard

often it seems rifles are worth more as individual parts than as a whole , while im not inclined to partout a serviceable rifle i think its worth consideration here - to get you whole and not 'tag' someone else

i had known of the M14 type rewelds and ill let that go there , i was unaware of there being a lot of M1rifles out there with rewelded receivers ,

i try to learn something new every day , sometimes i learn more than one thing

You can buy a reliable barreled receiver from the CMP for $100.00 and $125.00. Your present barrel/receiver might have value to someone who is building a non-shootable wall hanger or re-enactment rifle.
Good luck.
Chuck.

Hello Chuck,

Thanks for the tip.

I went over to the CMP North Store Wednesday and picked out a barreled receiver from the same serial number range as the welded up one. Of the examples they had out, all the bores were shot out.

That's a good idea to keep the welded job intact for someone who wants to build a period wall hanger. To be safe, it might be best to electro pencil on the receiver and barrel somewhere below the wood line exactly what it is.

This gives me an idea, too. Some of the barreled receivers at the CMP are good enough to use for the same purpose... a nice wall hanger to go with the rest of the WWII SA parts.

Cheers,

Richard

Hi,

Saturday at the OGCA show in Wilmington, I found gentlemen selling stashes of M1 Garand parts at two separate tables. Between them I found the parts needed to bring the welded M1 back and ready for shipment to Roland Beaver in Arkansas. The parts included a new op rod and new gas cylinder.

Monday I built a wooden crate to pack the rifle into, and UPS'd it to Arkansas.

I Googled Roland Beaver before sending: The guy is a Master Marksman as well as a retired Marine Match Armorer.

I'll let you know what it's like when it comes back.

Cheers,

Richard

from what ive heard of him you will be more than pleased , im glad your getting this put right , congrats on your patience and perserverance

do post photos please

Ditto A Square 10's request. Pics of both rifles together would be informative. I have never seen a welded receiver up close.
Chuck

Hi,

I will get photos of the welded receiver alongside one that is original. Whoever welded this one was really good at what he (maybe she) did. The weld surfaces were than milled away leaving an almost undectable repair.

When examining them, the receiver halves (front to back) are not aligned. The receiver can be laid on a 'true' surface such as a surface plate to check this. I'll try to get photos.

The drawing number does not match the serial number date, which is another clue.

Also, the milling marks where the receiver was fly cut along the outside of the guides do not line up, being a broken pattern between the two parts.

I do not know if the receiver was heat treated after the repair or not.

The barrel was likely turned with a carbide bit, which tends to leave a rougher cut than a high speed steel bit. Had I known this, I would have spotted it when I first saw the rifle, and would not need to take it apart to find the other clues. I did see it then, but did not know how to interpret it.

Regards,

Richard

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Has anyone here tried relining a shot out bore?

The principle is sound enough, and was used on a large scale after WW1 to reline old shot out 8mm Gew 98 rifles to 7mm for Spain.

I'd mentioned a corroded bore Krag I had once owned at another board years ago and relining had been suggested as a way to bring such a rifle back to shootable condition.

Hello Gun Nut,

That's an interesting thought. I called Roland Beaver and asked him what he thought about relining the barrels on our military rifles.

He said it was not a viable repair with modern arms because it would be unsafe considering the high pressures. He said it was done on black powder arms. In some cases to change a .58 caliber rifle down to .50 or .45 caliber. He did not say this applied to any of the Allen conversions of the 1863 - 65 rifles, some of which ended up in .50-70 caliber. That's another question.

He said that the more common practice of 'freshening' a barrel was to re-cut the grooves until clean steel was found, then reaming the lands to match the groove depth. Next, a suitable bullet mold was made to match the new diameter bore.

Best Regards,

Richard

Hi Everyone,

I promised to report as soon as this rifle came back from Roland Beaver in Arkansas.

Photos would not be appropriate, nor would they capture the performance of the rifle. Aside from looking as new as it did when coming from the arsenal, it shoots like a National Match M1. The trigger is crisp and right on the limit to qualify for the John Garand shoot. The stock is not glass bedded, rather Mr. Beaver hand inlet the stock to a smoothly snug fit.

The receiver was replaced with one that came from the CMP, and the barrel turned from a Douglas Premium blank. The stock is new American Black Walnut.

There was a young Marine Sergeant at the range (who shoots on the MCR Rifle Team). I let him put two clips through it at a 200 yard target. It's amazing how easy it is to read someone's mind when they are in 'covet mode'. He couldn't cease complimenting the armorer who put it together.

We disassembled the rifle and he examined it carefully, all the while marveling at the close attention to detail that makes these rifles accurate.

The young Sergeant told me that he would rather have a fine trigger group on an otherwise mediocre rifle than have a fine rifle with a mediocre trigger group.

The barrel, a Douglas Premium, is signed on the right side above the gas cylinder with, 'Old Corps Weaponry'

I believe Roland Beaver is every inch a Master Armorer.

Richard

Glad to hear it turned out ok for you.

Rad

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