Yesterday's Weapons Forums

White paint on the stock does not necessarily mean a rifle is a trainer. I have two T-99s with white Kanji on the stock.
Although I've been at this for 40 years now I actually have a pretty small collection - especially since I sold off around 35 rifles this year. Here are a couple of photos of what's left of my rifles. These are my 6.5mm examples


And these are my 7.7mm examples. You can see the white painted markings on my 10th series Nagoya. Some of my 7.7s are covered up by other stuff in this photo but you can see my pressure test Nagoya T-99

BTW I did keep the best ones when I did that sell off!

One other thing - there is a difference between a trainer and a "school" rifle. School rifles are real rifles removed from service with markings added. Most are badly worn but this one isn't. The 1/x marking between the mum and the Type 38 markings indicate it's a "school" rifle. Also notice that the mum has been cancelled with the Nagoya Arsenal mark.

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"A woman, a dog & a walnut tree. The more ya beat em, the better they be"
From the Red Badge of Courage
NRA Endowment (now Patron) Member

Japanese Last Ditch rifles are NOT the same as Nazi Last Ditch rifles. While Nazi last ditch rifles may bring bring $2000 and never have been fired because they were captured and are beautiful and functional but the Japanese last ditch rifles are worth about $2 were never fired because they could be fatal on both ends. Production started heading south as early as 1943. Wood butt plates, single peephole rear site, notched rear sight, lack of chrome lining in the barrel, painted rifle or stock or both may all indicate a last ditch rifle or a simply late production (have all these checked) but 1 piece tang- the piece behind the bolt that hold the action to the stock is a guaranteed last ditch never to be fired. Cast iron rifle. Some of the other lack heat treating. They are not safe as wall hanger as some one else might try and fire them later. The 7.7 as many of you know is no slouch as far as cartridges go. MuM or defaced mum makes no difference. The jap action may be one of the most robust actions in military surplus but even that cant make up for junk iron or lack of heat treating. This applies mainly to Type 99-
Military trainers may be any Type and not meant to be fired. It aint worth it.

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"If it killed them 150 years ago it will still kill them today. " (Response to a question about black powder fire arms)

OH My Gosh
I stand in awe- never have I seen anything like that. Not even in museums. Not even in Guam. I am stunned.

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"If it killed them 150 years ago it will still kill them today. " (Response to a question about black powder fire arms)

Rem, I hate to say this but you don't know what you're talking about. You are mingling characteristics of late rifles & trainers. Sounds like you've been reading the works of Ian Hogg who thinks anything Japanese is unbearable garbage & that Mauser's poop never stunk.
I have a rope hole (look that up) 11th series T-99 that is so close to end of production that it ain't funny. I would take that to the range with complete confidence in my safety. They may look like hell but they were still strong where they needed to be. The weakest thing I know of is the weld on the safety. I have seen these that have or were about to fail. That's the main reason I don't shoot the late ones.

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"A woman, a dog & a walnut tree. The more ya beat em, the better they be"
From the Red Badge of Courage
NRA Endowment (now Patron) Member

Here's my "ropehole" 11th series (just bought another that's not arrived yet). Trust me, this cost a hell of a lot more than $2 & there are folks that would gladly pay me more than I gave for it (I hope )
Here they were so short on steel at this point that they did away with the sling swivel & just bored a hole through the butt for a rope sling. This one's a beauty!

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"A woman, a dog & a walnut tree. The more ya beat em, the better they be"
From the Red Badge of Courage
NRA Endowment (now Patron) Member

Thank you Arisakadogs. It wasn't a trainer , it was school marked. I mis-spoke.
jon

Really? Wonder what the smoke was all about then? Is it import marked by any chance? At the last Arizona shoot we had a T-38 carbine that was a China import blow up. Under the wood a hole was drilled (or torched - I disremember) through the chamber. Good thing the shooter was left handed as it blew out the left side of the stock. He still received some minor injuries. I tell ya, them damn Chinese are trying to kill us all as well as our pets! Anyway, again - it just pays to learn all ya can about this stuff not only in the interest of safety, but you may find a 4X adjustable T-99 sniper scope, in it's case with straps, at a swap meet for $10. This happened to a friend - he knew what it was & the seller didn't. And, I'm sure both were pleased with the transaction.
Jon, I apologise for my reaction to the post of you firing a trainer. Would like to hear more about what the smoke was all about. Did you take the rifle apart to see what happened?

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"A woman, a dog & a walnut tree. The more ya beat em, the better they be"
From the Red Badge of Courage
NRA Endowment (now Patron) Member

All is good Arisakadogs, I mis-spoke and freely admit it. I would never tell someone to fire a Trainer. A School-marked is a different, if not case by case situation.
In my case, it smoked like a Mid-West smoke stack because it had been serriously over oiled for generations. It shot just like it should, but litereally smoked for twenty minutes after.
I'm confident that it poses no danger, but refuse to shoot it any more on principal...I believe in safety also.
This has been a good wake up to me to be sure of what I'm saying...
I meant no harm, just was tired and over-worked and used the wrong phrase.
Thank you for your concern though, for it was rightious.
It is not Import marked.
Just WAY to much lube over the years.
And one final sorry...Mybusa, you'r thread got ripped up. Those are some nice rifles, and I'm still curious as to Tim's question about wood and color? Just curious if it was intentional.
jon

OK , you guys just cxonvinced me i did the right thing selling my T99 - id thought id made a mistake , but , one cant be into everything and i love my enfeilds so im outa the arrisaka area for good --- i will however continue to study yours and admire your photos , you are into this far beyond what i have years left to invest

ive invested more than 30 years - its just that i have only a few hours a day to divert to this hobby - maybe if id been born parris hilton i could have changed this whole hobby

at least for me

Hey, the last thing I aim to do is to discourage anyone from enjoying this hobby. I'm just a poor working man that is blessed with a good job (elevator service mechanic) and with being single! You should see some of the other collections that I know of - mine is a poor opening act. Some of these guys have things you only see in books. Still, they & I all started with nothing, but learned what to buy & what was a waste of time & $$. Although I started in the 60s the oldest rifle to my collection (as far as how long I've had it) is a super T-38 Tokyo carbine I bought at the Shawnee, OK gunshow in 1982. I had to borrow the $300 I paid for it. That was an outrageous price at that time. Still, I haven't seen a better one since. I'd bet it would bring at least $1500 on auction now. Everything else up to that point was bought in ignorance. I had no books, so many were mismatched & were otherwise messed up. Once I got MROJ (about that same time) I started to learn what to look for. Good, and I mean some real good deals, are still out there and there are some good books now to help one be ready to pounce on them.

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"A woman, a dog & a walnut tree. The more ya beat em, the better they be"
From the Red Badge of Courage
NRA Endowment (now Patron) Member

That's a good back-page Arisakadogs. I'm in the same boat. Learning as I go along. Sometimes pissing off the elders, sometimes pleasing them.
What remains is that we're in it for the same reason, just with different experience levels. I'm man enough to say that. I'm not a player, and I know it.
I buy stuff because I like it, not to please anybody else. Period.
I for one, accept and look forward to your knowledge and experience.
If I ocasionably tick you off...so be it. We're still playing the same game.
Humble collector of Japanese Stuff


Still waiting on MYbusa. Do you collect for color and wood? That would be pretty cool, but if you don't, that's an amazing piece of coincidence.
jon

Hey Jon, great attitude! If you think I piss you guys off you should check out my regular haunt on Gunboards! I'll argue a point until it becomes clear that I'm wrong - at least it brings out the truth & then we're all happy! I do know when to give in to better facts than I have. Two constants in this hobby - you'll never have every piece you want and you'll never 'know it all'.

_________________
"A woman, a dog & a walnut tree. The more ya beat em, the better they be"
From the Red Badge of Courage
NRA Endowment (now Patron) Member

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██ █ ████ everything ███ █████ is █████ ████ ████ fine ████ ███ █ ██████ love. █████ ███████ ███ your █████ ████ government.

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"A woman, a dog & a walnut tree. The more ya beat em, the better they be"
From the Red Badge of Courage
NRA Endowment (now Patron) Member

If a rifle was given over as instructual material to a school, it was often marked with 2 oo's before the serial # and with this mark beneath the MUM.



BaD pics but you should get the idea. A school marked rifle is not the same as a trainer, which may not have ever been meant to be fired.
This is a T-38 School marked rifle.
jon

What I mean is "School Use"? Not how to tell what they were marked, but what were they doing with them in schools? Like West Point school? Or just regular style school...

I see, just regular ole "Hey kids, today we'll learn to conquer the ocean and slay the roundeyes"

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██ █ ████ everything ███ █████ is █████ ████ ████ fine ████ ███ █ ██████ love. █████ ███████ ███ your █████ ████ government.

No you're dealing with a toataly militaristic state here. "School"...meant just what you think...little boys and girls..."School."
jon

Damn Jon, that looks like a really nice rifle! Great clear pics too. Is that the one that "smoked"???
Apparently, in Japan at that time, firearms training was the norm in the educational system. I had a really nice 21st series Kokura T-99 that had a tag on the upper swivel. On that tag was the name of a high school student & his school and on the other side was the rifle's S/N in kana. Another one I should have kept!

_________________
"A woman, a dog & a walnut tree. The more ya beat em, the better they be"
From the Red Badge of Courage
NRA Endowment (now Patron) Member

Yes sir. This is the "Smoker in Chief"...there's nothing else wrong with it, but I'll never again try to shoot her. Just too much oil in them thar stocks...
jon