Yesterday's Weapons Forums

I've got a 1939 dated M38 in 7.35mm, and when I compared it to my 1941 dated 8mm conversion rifle, the barrel and stock lengths are different between the two rifles. I had assumed that the 8mm conversion was done from an M38 but it appears to be a different rifle; I have never had them side-by-side before.

The top rifle pictured is the 7.35 M38, the bottom rifle is the 8mm conversion. Any information would be appreciated.



FYI, I have fired both, the 8mm as a single-shot with 1950's dated Yugoslavian surplus ammunition.

The bottom 7.9 conversion was formerly an M91-38TS. Which is kind of a shame as there weren't all that many of those made in the 1st place. And it's the big reason you hardly ever see an M91-38TS for sale. ( Grab one if you get the chance!)

Conventional wisdom has it there were around 10,000 conversions of the kind you have. Nothing is chiseled in stone with that number, though.

There were around 5,000 of the 7.9 cav carbine conversions made, so if you get a shot at one for a decent price... let your bank balance be your guide!

You are harder then I - cast loads for me only! SW

Thanks for the information on the 8mm M91-38TS conversion!

I've checked the headspace, it's good with a field-gauge. There's also no evidence of lug-setback on the bolt so I'm pretty comfortable firing it with surplus ammo. I'm keeping an eye on it though, and don't fire it all that often. It IS a bit brutal on the shoulder...

I've seen instructions on converting a standard Carcano clip for use with 8mm rounds, I might try that so I don't but too much stress on the extractor during chambering.

Thanks again!

I finally found my M91-38TS for a comparison pic. Top is an FNA-Brescia from the 'B' letter block. It has Navy markings and was not cheep! You either want a Navy model or you don't, so I choked up the $.

Bottom is a 7.9 conversion. Also an FNA-B but from the 'RA' serial number letter block. It yet shows vestiges of the Arabic markings which mean "trainer" or a similar word. The majority of the Arabic 7.9 trainers are beat all TO heck, and I sincerely believe part of the training in Egyptian & Syrian boot camps included a "Throw your rifle down and run for it!" class. That certainly seemed the case during the "seven day war" with Israel in '67!

A few were made from other models, but the majority were made from M91-38TS... and no doubt a few M38TS, as well! Converting a 7.35 TS to 7.9??? Well, who knew - or cared - that they would be quite desirable property someday? SW

I'm a wimp! No mil surplus rounds for me on mine! Before the accident I managed to fire three and that was enough.

Back when I first got my now long gone Persian Mauser carbine i ran across a small box of 8mm milsurp ammo of unknown origin.
First shot let off a muzzle blast so fierce I thought the gun had exploded. The hole in the clay bank behind the target erupted with a tracer flare so bright I can't tel you what color it was, since all I could see was after images.

I figure that many if not all the accidents involving rifles converted to 8mm by the Germans were the result of the firer getting ahold of high pressure Machinegun ammo by mistake.

The Infantry loads were within reasonable limits, but contrary to popular belief pressure levels of MG loads were not held down to safe limits for rifles, even though the K98 was strong enough to digest a few rounds of Tungsten Carbide core ammo, and they did issue a five round clip or two for emergency use when faced with Allied AFV. A round that could shake loose a K98 after very few rounds could unhinge a lesser action post haste.

You make a valid point! I am also leery of the gunpowder changing chemically due to temperature extremes found in poor storage. Like a conex box in the desert sun for months on end.

Due to wide variations in critical dimensions on the 7.9 conversions, I'll stick to cast bullet loads in mine. SW

i've never, ever shot an 8mm. pop has 2, a regular carbine and a cavalry carbine i found at a flea market for 75 bucks and gave to him. I've watched him and my cousin shoot both, but was never tempted to do so myself. strangely, they both claim that the cavalry carbine kicks less, even though it's smaller.
there seems to be a progression in firing these:
1. pull trigger.
2. look for your hat.
3. take 2 steps forward to where you started.
4. open bolt and reload
5. repeat.

I was joking with my dad one day about them and told him I had a theory about why the italian army may not have done so well in ww2. the theory is not based in reality, but made him laugh anyhow. here it is:

the italian army must've been set up as 2 man fire teams. if they were issued with the 8mm mauser carbines, everytime they got an order to fire, one looked at the other and said "$##@@#$$ you, I shot LAST time!"

like I said, not grounded in reality, but good for a grin!

y'all have a good day, Keith

When looking over a list of Mauser 8mm Carbines I found a notation for one model that said these were issued with a special downloaded 8mm cartridge for police use.

When I had the Persian Mauser I used my own lightly loaded handloads, after tossing the remaining T-rex killer rounds in a pond.
I also used some very fresh, it was late sixties then, Canadian 8mm ammo. That stuff kicked but not too badly since the persian Carbine, at least the one I had, had a very heavy weight barrel and stock of heavy dense wood. It weighed about as much as my SMLE.
Muzzle blast from the short tube was always a problem though.
I used light charges of 4198 powder, this powder burns efficiently in short .30+ bores, reducing blast and giving best accuracy. The loads I used gave a hair more velocity than the .30-30, but thats plenty for a full bore Carbine.

A booklet on RAF ammuniton storage I ran across on the net stated that ammunition cases left in the sun on the Indian northwestern frontier during testing reached temperatures of 160 degree F.
Italian military propellants were a double base type with high percentage of Nitro and double base powders, Cordite notably, can begin to sweat nitroglycerin at 125 degrees. The Nitro if not reabsorbed can gather in a pool in the case.

So far every instance of a Carcano action failure I've read of involved very old ammo that came from North africa or the Mid East, where very high temperatures are common.

PS
Something to look out for when buying a Carcano. Some found in California in recent years turned out to have had the chambers roughly drilled out oversized. I suspect these came from Movie prop warehouse auctions and had been altered to accept a blank cartridge larger in dia than the 6.5 Italian.
Similar drilled out Krag rifles have been returned to the CMP from prop warehouses and from use as drill or parade rifles.
The standard Hollywood Remington 5 in 1 Blank used in films was made to fit western style .45 Colts and .44-40 rifles. Its necked down to fit the 38-40 as well, so it was used in any chamber it could be crammed into or the chamber altered to let it fit.

Large stocks of theatrical prop weapons were sold off when 20th Century fox had to reduce its holdings, and other prop weapon suppliers have gone out of business since then, so otherwise good condition firearms that have been altered or rendered dangerous by use of corrosive blanks may be on the market.

Surplus 8mm, twice and never again. Will stick to SW's idea or use it as a club! By the time the other side gets to you it's still not enough time to get the bolt open and load another.

I have three of these little carbines in 8x57 Mauser. When I got the first two in a trade, I was concerned about safety. I did some research on the Carcano action and I found that my state of New Mexico was involved in a law suit about a rifle "blowing up" New Mexico has perhaps the best explosive testing labs in the USA. Carcano loads were made using every type of powder you could think of. None would blow up the action. The cases melted in the chamber,barrels burst, stocks cracked from excaping gases. The actio0n never failed. They gave up when they welded the barrel shut and the action still held.
That was good enought for me.
Since then I've shot just about every 8mm Mauser loading made out of the carbines. Recoil is not an issue. If your action screws are tight, the recoil is much less than am M44 Mosin of the 95 Steyr carbine.
At first I hated the "sights". Once I got used to them I found that hits from 100-600 yards were easy to make. The muzzle blast and fire ball is impressive. Shooting prone in dry grass is not recomended.
It's a shame no real clips can be had. One guy on Gunboards may have a real one. No one knows for sure.
Over the years the "Sky is falling" owners of Carcano rifles/carbines have sold me many of their unsafe rifles.
While not sexy looking,they all operate very well and are good shooters when loaded with the correct ammo.
I shot my first 1941 Carcano in 1964 at a waterlogged log using original surplus ammo in 6.5. when the telephone-pole bullet went through the target and dug a trough in the sand, I knew I wanted one some day. 6.5,7.35 & 8mm are all fun to shoot.

You make a good point about the bullet. I've read everything I can get my hands on about WDM 'Karamojo' Bell, and he felt the long, parallel-sided 6.5 caliber bullet gave the very best penetration.

Given the hundreds of elephant he killed with same, I feel he was emminently qualified to make that statement. Not that I'm saving up for an elephant hunt with 6.5x52!! 416 Rigby at the very least for me!

I have first hand experience with the strength of the Carcano action. Before Hornady's specific data for the .268" 160 grainer became commonly available, I had a pressure spike while experimenting with IMR 3031.

The primer fell out, and the markings on the case head were completely obliterated by the pressure! But the action held, and a chamber cast showed everything was still in spec.

The Italian rifles are about all I buy anymore.

And! Welcome to the nut house... errr... I mean forum! Please jump right in & continue posting. We try not to take ourselves too seriously here! SW

Yes welcome to the madness yet love of Carcanos!