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 Post subject: Sporterized Carcano 6.5
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:31 pm 
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I just bought a 6.5 Carcano that looks like a factory sporterized model, it has a shortened barrel that must have had the gain twist that is now gone, and checks out now at about 13.5 to 1 twist and can't hit a barn door at 20 paces and when it does the bullet hits sideways, I tried Hornadays 160 grain bullet at 27 grain of BLC-2 and the bullet shoots a lot better but still is unstable, and the brass cases collapted on one side,,,,? it think this my be a headspace problem? but I also tried a 100grain bullet at 32grains BLC-2 and it shot pretty straight with a spread about 2 inchs and the bullet shot staight through the paper at 25 yards, big increase in accuracy,,.
anyway this Carcano has a shortened stock and barrel no bayonet lug no metal forend piece but was nicely done,, and I just saw one for sale on gunbroker.com just like it. it does have the cross rifle and bullseye but that means little if it cant hit anything?? what in world were they thinking shorting a long gain twist rifle??? I think I will keep it now that I can shoot cheeper bullets and get some accuracy out of it now....any help will be appreciated.... shootster!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:54 am 
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Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
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Unfortunately, there's no such animal as a "factory sporter." In the early 60s, one of the importers cut down a few thousand long rifles into a "handier" arm, but it was slap-dash work. Yours might be a home project - hard to say for certain.

"Sideways bullets" sounds very much like a bore diameter issue. The majority of the Carcanos have a .2675" or close bore. Which means a .264" bullet won't do very well accuracy wise.

I'd say if you wish to continue shooting it, 1st order of biz is to slug the bore. If it's noticably over .264" then you might wish to consider using the 160 grain, .268 bullet by Hornady.

Proceed with caution here. Use only W760 or H414 in conjunction with magnum primers. Any other combination of powders and primers is unsafe due to pressure spikes.

I have 1st hand experience with this and it's to be avoided at all cost. Before the safe data became widely available, I was experimenting with a moderate load of IMR 3031 and had a pressure spike. The primer disappeared, and the pressure was so great, the case head markings were completely obliterated. I had to pound the bolt open.

I doubt I can adequately explain what causes the pressure spikes with other gunpowders and non-magnum primers... the matter is explained in the latest Hornady reloading manual or you can call their toll-free # and they will e-mail you same.

The crossed rifle mark basically means the rifle has the potential for accuracy. In full military configuration and with mil-spec ammo. You throw in variables like altered rifling and handloads, you can pretty much forget that.

At one point, I experimented with sizing down 130 and 150 grain 270 bullets to .268", and that was going pretty well. I had some decent groups and thought I had hit the big time with a new idea.

Not to be. The ballistics techs at Hornady told me that's a very bad idea that could wind up wrecking the rifle and possibly me. Well, I figure they do that for a living, and I'm not much of a daredevil, so I abandoned that.

Now I just shoot the .268 160 grainer with a load of H414 right from the manual that approximates the original military velocity. With magnum primers, of course. My mug isn't much to behold, but I don't care to have it too close to a wreck.

Given your account of poor accuracy... if the rifle was mine... I believe I'd retire it in favor of something in full military dress. Or you could experiment with cast bullet loads - those are pretty safe. Generally speaking. I ain't signing anything that way. SW

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:12 pm 
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I was following Lees loading instruction, execpt the 160grn bullet was Hornaday's 268 Dia. the barrel measured out at .269 the bullets that could not hit the barn door was Priv. factory loads with the .264 dia. bullet. the best I shot was using a 100grn. bullet with 33grns of Hodgdon BLC2. what bothered me was with the Mim. load with the hornaday bullets the cases collaptsed but ejected nice.. so I did load some more with the max charge of 30grns. BLC2 but have not tried them, with Rem. 91/2 primers. The Hornaday book does say to use Winchester Magnum Primers with there data, with the 160grn bullet in there chart..... How does one upload pics.?? the only reason I decided to by a Carcano is because they are simular looking to a Steyr..... but now I kinda like it. I do not need to loose my face and head in process of having fun.........!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:09 pm 
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Well I ignored the "magnum" part and used standard primers once........
Definite signs of high pressure.....I had several with flattened primers
then one time the primer was blown clean out of the case & I had a face
full of hot gas!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:04 pm 
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Wow...! I am coming to the conclusion that you guys are right.... I just went back to the range today and tried using 85grain bullet .264dia. on a .268 bore with 34grns BLC 2 with Rem. 91/2 primers and got a flash in the face because the case did not seal very well. and the primers are not flating at all.. stings a little. also it make your eyes burn!!! I did not see any signs of hight pressure but I the combination did not work as well as i thought it wauld. accuracy was the best I have ever seen with this rifle though. .5 inch at 25 yards... does not sound that good, but considering the bullets were hitting side ways with the slower bullets! this is going to take some time. Maybe I should try using Winchester power... I don't have any. put it on my todo list.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
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A lot of soot on your fired cases is a good sign you need a larger diameter bullet. SW

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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:45 pm 
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Well, sat. I went back to the range, I did not use mag. primers yet, but I did try two things that show promise, 1. just for the fun of it I loaded two case's with 45grn. of pyrodex rifle shotgun. and used standard primers with100grn. bullet and I got a good seal and 1600fps. with not so good accuracy. 2nd. I tried using IMR 3031 with 31grns and a 85grn. bullet and I got a much better seal and very good accuracy @ 25 yards.. Next, magnum primers and 30 grns. IMR3031 100grn. bullet. and 31grn. of 3031 and 85 grn bullet..?? Its getting better.


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 8:11 pm 
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Well I been playing around with magnum primers and IMR 3031 and IMR 4198 and the results are getting better, 85 grn. bullet.. It seems faster powders help the sealing problems and because I am using .264 dia. bullets in a .268 bore getting a good seal on the cases with faster powders and magnum primers seem to be working better, and accuracy is better with a faster bullet with such a slow rifling @ about 16-1..


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:41 pm 
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well after giving up on this for a while I just tried to go higher with the IMR 4198@35grns and a 85grn. pellet and magum primers most shot with a round hole in the paper but did get a sideway cut in the paper.
I just ordered from Lee a costum made sizing die to make .277 pellets down to .268 and that should help some. I think I shall go a little higher with IMR 4198


Last edited by shootster on Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:21 am 
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I would work with cast boolets. Might be a little more forgiving with pressures

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:58 am 
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I would consider it but with a shortened variable twist rifling that was cut off it will not shoot slower boolits


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:04 pm 
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A load that has promise in my cut-down M91 is 33 grains of IMR 4320 under a .268" 140grain Buffalo Arms spitzer using a Remingon 9 1-2 magnum primer. Groups at 50 yds were good, 100 not real good, but I do have to drift the front sight a little and try again on a day when it's not snowing and raining with 25+ mph winds. I tried the same bullet with 34.5 grains of the same powder, but the POI was identical. My bore slugged at .2682"

tom


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:24 pm 
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shootster wrote:
I would consider it but with a shortened variable twist rifling that was cut off it will not shoot slower boolits


You can always size down # 2 buck shot (.27") or #1(.30) A Round ball would stabilize ok :lol

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:51 pm 
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Hmmmm your right I will think about it,


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 7:04 pm 
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I just got my sizing die from lee custom ordered to size from.277 to .268 got to try it soon!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:43 pm 
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I finally got to try my new sizing die to resize .277 to .268 and I only tried two with .268 100grn bullet with 34grns of IMR 4198 and all seem's great. It sealed well, and my first shot got off a little early because this Carcano has a hair pin trigger and I am not use to but both were on the paper at the same height at about 35yds. and they both went strait through the paper.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
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What did you use for lube? I finally had to go with automotive STP. SW

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:16 pm 
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I used Lyman's case lube, its a liquid, the people at Lee told me to use a brass case lube, they did go through a bit stiff.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:45 pm 
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Just shot some more, and so far all seems good,,,, all went through the paper like an arrow and it was grooping........ The resizing die seems so far to be working,,,?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:45 pm 
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I got a question for anybody who knows anything about Carcano's,,, I just purchased a Carcano 6.5 on Gunbroker.com, and it is a carbine that looks like a short Model 91, it has the sling under the gun, it has the second barrel band, and a nose cap with bayonet lug. and cleaning rod, it has a fixed sight. Handguard that goes all the length of the stock. I just hope to hell it is not a shortened barrel like my first Carcano that is an importer's sporter version????? is it a 91/38 varient? :-? I can not find any thing on the internet that looks like it in other imformative websites. ,, I also see there is another one like it for sale to.. is this going to be a good shooter,, I hope so...


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