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Yesterday's Weapons Forums :: View topic - Italian Vetterlis with handguards
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Italian Vetterlis with handguards
http://www.yesterdaysweapons.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=12658
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Author:  NebrHogger [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Italian Vetterlis with handguards

Those never existed, right? Here we see two I acquired from widely separated sources that have very similar handguards. The 1870/87 Vetterlis in 10.4X47R caliber went to Spain as aid from Stalin to his fellow commies... for a steep price.

The 6,5 variety went to Franco's Nationalists as part of Italy's aid package. But in the ebb and flow of battle, both could have changed sides - possibly more than once.

At this point, I know pretty much nothing about these other than they exist. While very similar, subtle differences can be seen. Shown first is the 1870/87 with "Made in Italy" mark indicating import from Spain where it was used in the Spanish Civil War. ( SCW) The stock doesn't match the barrel number & no Cyrillic proofs can be found thereon.

Made in Italy ( poorly-struck) is seen here as well as the 1892 manufacture date which makes it one of the very last Vetterlis produced before Carcanos were issued.
handguard 002 (1024x621).jpg
handguard 002 (1024x621).jpg [ 315.27 KiB | Viewed 5131 times ]


These show the handguard from various angles. Notice crude fitting marks and the single barrel clamp with its two screws.
handguard 005 (1024x451).jpg
handguard 005 (1024x451).jpg [ 186.37 KiB | Viewed 5131 times ]


handguard 006 (1024x370).jpg
handguard 006 (1024x370).jpg [ 186.8 KiB | Viewed 5131 times ]


handguard 009 (1024x247).jpg
handguard 009 (1024x247).jpg [ 113.59 KiB | Viewed 5131 times ]


handguard 011 (1024x286).jpg
handguard 011 (1024x286).jpg [ 141.75 KiB | Viewed 5131 times ]


Here's the barrel band showing clear evidence it was hand-forged to fit
handguard 013 (1024x576).jpg
handguard 013 (1024x576).jpg [ 199.38 KiB | Viewed 5131 times ]

Author:  NebrHogger [ Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Italian Vetterlis with handguards

Next we see the 1870/87/15 Vetterli in 6,5 caliber. While the handguard is very similar, there are subtle differences. Mostly in the lack of hand-fitting marks. The barrel band shows no sign of hand forging. The holes in the stock are attachment points for the Krnka Quickloader which I don't believe relates to this topic.

No Made in Italy mark or extra proofs.

On the receiver ring is "37" which may indicate the year something was done in an arsenal. "27" appears in another spot, but pics of that didn't turn out.
handguard 020 (1024x549).jpg
handguard 020 (1024x549).jpg [ 260.32 KiB | Viewed 5130 times ]


Here are shots of the handguard. While very similar, there ae slight differences which might indicate both are altered handguards from a commonly available rifle of the period.
handguard 023 (1024x297).jpg
handguard 023 (1024x297).jpg [ 124.81 KiB | Viewed 5130 times ]


handguard 027 (1024x359).jpg
handguard 027 (1024x359).jpg [ 139.37 KiB | Viewed 5130 times ]


Then we have images of both side by side with handguards in place.
handguard 021 (1024x383).jpg
handguard 021 (1024x383).jpg [ 237.04 KiB | Viewed 5130 times ]


handguard 022 (1024x464).jpg
handguard 022 (1024x464).jpg [ 294.43 KiB | Viewed 5130 times ]


And a side view of both with bayonets. The 6,5 actually has a nice piece of lumber, but as an actual historical artifact, it will remain as found as long as I have it.
handguard 029 (1024x349).jpg
handguard 029 (1024x349).jpg [ 279.81 KiB | Viewed 5130 times ]


As always when acquiring unusual specimens, more questions arise than answers. The handguards are very similar... does anyone have ideas from what model rifle they were taken? Any other comments or ideas are solicited!

If items like this are posted and discussed, we might learn nothing. If not, then we darn sure won't! I am here to learn, Friends! SW

Author:  NebrHogger [ Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Italian Vetterlis with handguards

On another site, an advanced collector told me the handguards were added in Spain during their civil war. I don't have evidence to the otherwise so we'll go with that.

Here again we have an answer that leads to more questions. Like who added them... why do both a Republican and Nationalist rifle have them... But at least we're a little closer. SW

Author:  NebrHogger [ Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Italian Vetterlis with handguards

Another Vetterli with handguard has surfaced - in Germany this time.

hg1.jpg
hg1.jpg [ 306.93 KiB | Viewed 5105 times ]


hg2.jpg
hg2.jpg [ 300.51 KiB | Viewed 5105 times ]


It has a hand-fabricated barrel band like one shown above.

hg3.jpg
hg3.jpg [ 320.19 KiB | Viewed 5105 times ]


And stock marks of unknown purpose or origin.

hg4.jpg
hg4.jpg [ 323.1 KiB | Viewed 5105 times ]


Which means my two are not flukes. The owner has consented to send pics for inclusion in the next Italian rifle book. We discussed possibilities that might explain why a few Vetterlis have the added handguard. While we may never know for certain, I'm leaning toward the idea these are the work of a particular unit's armorer.

As before, I solicit your thoughts and speculation. SW

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