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Yesterday's Weapons Forums :: View topic - My Christmas gift to myself (little late).
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My Christmas gift to myself (little late).
http://www.yesterdaysweapons.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2967		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mybusa [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:00 am ]
Post subject:  My Christmas gift to myself (little late).
Here are 2 (new to me) Carcano’s that joined the collection. Both are number matching to their stocks. Both are TS carbines. The top is a Beretta dated 1929 that is the first one I have seen with out the side cutout for a sling. It might have been used by the San Marco Marines (researching this) but it does have the Anchor marked bolt. The lower is a nice TS carbine with great looking stock, Brescia dated 1917 with clear matching numbered stock.

Both rifles.

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Beretta with anchor,

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Brescia with nice stock,

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Author:  Et2ss [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:36 am ]
Post subject: 
:-o :-o :-o
Author:  nortonguy [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:21 am ]
Post subject: 
beautiful! I have a side latch bayo that I'm trying to get a rifle for, and that TS you got would fit the bill nicely!
Author:  airdale [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Nice examples of the M91TS and M91/28 TS carbines.

The Beretta 91/28 has some strange markings. The date is usually stamped on the R/H barrel flat and the serial number on the L/H barrel flat and yours seems the opposite and I don't see a letter prefix for the serial number or a Fascist date (Roman Numberials) . If I had to guess I would say this rifle was made for the police, customs or forest service instead of for the Military. Does it have "Made in Italy" stamped on the L/H muzzle area of the barrel? Most of the Navy issue rifles were stamped like this when they were imported but if it was a Vet. bring back then it would of course have no import mark.

The M91/28 was made with either bottom only, side only or both side and bottom sling mounts. Yours is the bottom only type and was intended to be used with the Carcano wide sling but any sling that was available would have been used regardless if it was the wide or narrow type.

Good find.
Author:  Gungrubber [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
NICE !!

GG
Author:  A square 10 [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
they look great :D
Author:  Mybusa [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
airdale

After another look at the Beretta I can see made in Italy lightly stamped left side of the barrel. The date serial number stumped me also to the point when I unboxed it I thought the date was the serial number and was bummed that the stock didn't match! Then I realized that the serial number was on the other side.

nortonguy

If you want to donate your bayonet to a good cause let me know.
Author:  airdale [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mybusa take the barreled action out of the stock and see if there is an anchor stamped on one of the barrel flats. Some of the anchors were stamped below the wood line and very hard to see with the stock on.
Also check to see if there is a shield with a crown on top inside an oval stamped on the rifle somewhere, usually on the chamber area and or the receiver. This would be the military acceptance stamp.

The lack of a letter prefix of the serial number makes me want to think this rifle was issued to some government agency rather than the military but every year it seems another rifle with strange markings pops up.
Author:  Mybusa [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
airdale

Here are the photo's I took of the rifle apart, they are random photos as I was not looking for any certain markings.

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Sorry thats all I have from the rifle. In a day or two I'll take it apart and look for other markings.
Author:  NebrHogger [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Some of these had the side sling bars added during refurb. I have two with stock cartouches partially obscured by the added cut-out.

You will also see some with the cut out poorly done and too far up the wrist of the stock. I have one that way which came to us via Albania. I'm guessing the Albanians ( or Greeks) did that.

AFAIK, the Italian arsenals had a template for the cutout so the stock would not be weakened by an improperly-placed cut out.

The M91TS is unique for the excellent stock. By mid-WWI, most of the walnut in Europe had been used to extinction. We also see this in the M.95 Steyr. The Austrians used about any kind of wood you can name native to Europe.

Now you have me frothing at the bit for the rifles I have coming. I just bought a Beretta M91-28 and have expressed STRONG interest in a Beretta M91-38TS from the same gentleman.

Pics when I have them in hand. SW
Author:  airdale [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
The one photo of the bolt root definitely looks like an anchor.


Nebrhogger you may want to send DM the link to this thread and see what his opinion is on this M91/28.
Author:  NebrHogger [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Airdale,

You mean as far as it might be for other than military? SW
Author:  airdale [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes and if it is military can it be positive ID'ed as a navy issue by what markings are posted or by serial number. The bolt has the markings but bolts are swaped around alot during rework or arsenal repair.


BTW the box you sent me is in Knoxville and I'll have it tomorrow.
Author:  NebrHogger [ Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'll ask him - it might be a while for an answer as he told me a while back he is extremely busy with his work.

I hope you are as happy with your parcel as Dutch Mosin was with his! 8) SW
Author:  Mybusa [ Fri Jan 11, 2008 1:27 am ]
Post subject: 
airdale

I just checked another Beretta Carcano 1931 dated and it is also dated the same as this Beretta (location wise). I keep looking at the bolt and i'm 99% positive that its an anchor. Is the location of the anchor correct? I also noticed that the rifle has some pitting along the wood line like it has spent some time in damp areas.

I still like the wood on the other one!!!!

VERY PRETTY!!

There is a nice TS like mine on auction right now with nice looking wood also!

Image

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... m=89492191

If I had the cash and was not watching another Carcano I might think about buying it!! If any one here is a bidder on this please let me know!!
Author:  airdale [ Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Author:  Mybusa [ Fri Jan 11, 2008 2:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks

I think I'll go have a look at my 1931 Beretta and see if it has the same mark. You never know!!
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