Yesterday's Weapons Forums

On another site, several folks asked about this topic, so myself & another Italian collector composed the post shown in the link.

So are these safe to shoot with mil-spec ammo or the .268 Hornady bullet? No. But we may each play with our toyz as we best see fit, so I'm not going to get all preachy about it.

Before one pulls the trigger, it's well to consider the metallurgy of the older rifles as well as what the action was designed to handle pressure-wise.

Some were actuallly used in combat, but given the choice between shooting one of these with issue ammo or getting a little non-elective surgery from a dull bayonet, my choice should come as no surprise.

Have fun with your rifles. Safely. SW

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.a ... _ID=235714

Well, that link won't work since Gunboards started over with a clean slate. I've contacted the co-author & we hope to re-write it. SW

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O-tay! Airdale wrote this after I sent him my rough draft & we had it posted as a stickey on gunboards. Well, that place may be quite a while getting back up to speed, so we will include it here.

The following was written by airdale with the exception of a couple small edits by me.

This has long been a controversial issue, but due to the safety issues involved, it needs to be objectively addressed. I have overheard several times at gunshows conversations between potential buyer and seller.

The prospective buyer often knows little of this model and will ask, "What kind of ammo can I shoot in it?"

The seller will often reply, "You can shoot any 6.5 Carcano ammo in it." While this is physically possible, it is a misleading statement. What the sellers fail to say is that these conversions were done to obsolete rifles that were designed for a black powder cartridge.

Due to the age of these rifles and their being originally designed for a low pressure BP cartridge and not knowing how many rounds of military ammunition have been fired in them plus some of these conversions having not been very well done in the first place, I personally and everyone I know who owns & shoots these do not fire any military or commercial ammunition in them.

I also think firing the Hornady .268 diameter 160 grain bullets whether in factory or reloaded ammunition is flirting with disaster as most of the bores I have slugged measure .266. I have in the past loaded .264 bullets with starting loads with no problems but after observing a number of Italian Vetterlis with hairline cracks on the bolts, I no longer do this.

I started conversing with another board member who also likes to shoot these but has the same safety concerns as I, and we came up with a load that is basically data taken from the Lyman Cast Bullet manual. Instead of using the Lyman 129 grain bullet, we substituted a .266 hard cast, gas checked 130 grain bullet that is available from Leadheads ( www.proshootpro.com ) and stayed with the data for the 129 grainer.

This 130 grain bullet when loaded with 8.0 to 10.0 grains of Unique gives velocities in the 1300 - 1500 fps range and is very mild & fun to shoot. The recoil & noise level is not much different from a 22 long rifle had has showed no signs of pressure in any rifle used for our testing.

Keeping in mind these rifles do not have the necessary accuracy to neuter a spider @ 100 yards, they do shoot fairly well. Both my rifles will shoot 4" to 4.5" groups @ 100 yards with the 130 grain bullet and 8.7 grains of Unique, but I have to hold the sights on the bottom left of the target to be in the bull. These have no windage adjustment , and most will still shoot high with the rear sight at the lowest setting, so each shooter must experiment to find the specific point of aim for his rifle.

Please be aware I am not posting this to tell anyone what ammo they MUST shoot in their conversions but only to provide some information about them and some safety issues one may wish to consider before putting a clip in the magazine.

Also use the loading data at your own risk. The data has proven safe in several of the rifles we used in testing and in the rifles of fellow forum members, but due to erratic headspace or other mechanical issues, it may not be safe in yours.

Please post any comments you might have, and we would very much like to hear of everyone's shooting experiences with this model.

Data for my favorite load:

1889 Terni VV 1870/87/15 - Alpha Chrony 16' from muzzle - Grafs brass - Rem 9 1/2 primers - Leadheads 130 grain hard cast, gas checked bullet - 8.7 grains Unique powder - COL = 2.870 OAT = 47 degrees F. 6 shots fired.

Hi = 1397
Lo = 1371
ES = 25.88 FPS
Avg = 1381 fps
Sd = 9.64

And there you have it! While we can't look anyone in the eye & say your rifle will detonate in your face before you finish your 1st clip of mil-spec ammo, we ain't signing anything that it won't, either.

*being a little tired, I'll Czech this for spelling, etc in the AM. SW*

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I would like to add, that I agree 100% here with Steve....I had once upon a time a good example of the rifle, sound, no problems anywhere, so decided to go shoot it with some mil ammo I had.
Well after about 3rd shot, the primer blew in the ammo, gasses came back and if I hadn't been wearing glasses, I am sure I would of been blinded in one eye
So even the old ammo can be suspect, along with these old rifles~headspace, metallurgy, old stuff can be dangerous!

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When I bought my M91/28 in 1965, I got three "free" boxes of surplus ammo. I had 2 split cases in the first box and quit using them. Years later I sold the 2 remaining boxes for more than the original price. I never have shot the surplus again.
Wes

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I'm new to cast shooting, but here is a question.

I've heard that you have to have the cast bullet be very close to the actual diameter or the bore, lest you have severe lead fouling in a relative short period of time. I think I'm using .264 diameter lead bullets with a copper gas check when I fire my Vetterli. I've held off firing it much more until I figure this important question out first.

Any help on this would be appreciated.

Best Regards,

Mark

In cast bullet shooting, a couple thousandths over bore diameter is a good thing. A gas seal is thus created. Blow by gas will wreck accuracy.

Vetterlis are .264 bore diameter so .268 bullets are great. Especially since only a light charge of powder is being used.

If you'd like to experiment, say the word & I'll forward a few. SW

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Only if you will trade for some Korean cup ramen. Think cayenne pepper. I must offer something in return shouldn't I?

Best Regards,

Mark

Ummm... I'll pass on the spicy food. My internal organs rebel easily at such things. But the hard cast boolets are yours. I'll mail a few this coming week. SW

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Do you have to slug the bore to get bore diam.? I would like to find out bore diameter for my steyr 8x56! Thanks, Eli

The most accurate results come from slugging. You can use a lead fishing sinker & it's not too difficult. SW

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Here's graphic evidence you don't want to push these old rifles. The 6,5 caliber liner is just soldered in place. As in if the barrel gets too hot, the liner could head downrange.

Further emphasized is the need to carefully measure the bore and avoid .268" jacketed bullets.

I still think these are best suited for bayonet practice. SW


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