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Yesterday's Weapons Forums :: View topic - Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
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Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
http://www.yesterdaysweapons.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8012		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Mybusa [ Wed May 06, 2009 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
SW has asked me to share with you some of my Navy marked Carcano Carbines. I have photos of only 4 so I hope that is ok. 3 are Beretta's and one is a Brescia.

Enjoy

1943 Beretta with small shield on (and in) stock and anchor on bolt.

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1940 Beretta with small shield on stock and barrel, and anchor on bolt.

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1929 Beretta with anchor on bolt. Matching rifle unique to Carcano's this one matches all the way down to inside the wood, bolt and even the mag hsg. Sorry I don't have better photos. This was my first Navy and this is the one that got me hooked.

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1939 Brescia, shield marked on stock and barrel. No Anchor? Maybe a Beretta thing?

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There that concludes the ones that I have photos of. I am not sure if I have more but I may. One of the major draw back of the meds I take is memory loss so enjoy these and lets get some more of you folks buying Italian! But just don't buy the ones SW and I are bidding on. :bigrin: :bigrin:
Author:  NebrHogger [ Thu May 07, 2009 2:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
Great pics!! I still believe the large anchors show use by San Marco marines. The shields are for all other navy types. Can't prove it, but all the signs point that way. I'm keeping track and asking around.

There's another nice navy at auction right now... but if I was smart, I'd sink the $ into mother's day loot for wifey. I don't claim to be smart, but I have a navy in the UPS pipeline anyway...

Household politics! 8-) SW
Author:  Mybusa [ Thu May 07, 2009 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
Pm me the auction. I think I'm already bidding on it! :bigrin:

Mothers day? The kids are supposed to take care of that!!
Author:  NebrHogger [ Wed May 20, 2009 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
I just got in another navy. 1937 Beretta M91-28 in an FNA civilian stock... WITH navy stock cartouche! Seller didn't know about the navy markings or it would have been a lot higher than I bid.

Here are a few more variations of the anchor and shield. Look for them in the oddest places - like top tang where the bolt rides.

I think I have enough navys now to equip an Italian war canoe! ;) :crzy: SW

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Author:  Mybusa [ Wed May 20, 2009 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
Very nicely marked that one is!
Author:  NebrHogger [ Wed May 20, 2009 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
And! It has the C for Cogne steel mark - not common at all. SW
Author:  A square 10 [ Wed May 20, 2009 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
interesting - and very nice , im not into these but it seems they are quite nice , i see some correlation to what i find intereresting in my enfields
Author:  NebrHogger [ Wed May 20, 2009 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
We've posted these pics so that if you're at a gun show or pawn shoppe and spot the marks, even if you don't want it for yourself, you can haggle the price down and peddle it for a profit. To some chucklehead like me! 8-)

Always watch for the anchor or navy shield on a Beretta TS. And if you EVER see an M91 Carcano long rifle by Beretta that you don't want, I have $ and trading stock set aside for it!

Mybusa can't have those in Cali but they are way legal in Nebr! :rotflma: :crzy: :bigrin: SW
Author:  Mybusa [ Thu May 21, 2009 12:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
HA HA

After that comment I'm sure you all will do the right thing and contact me first! ;)
Author:  Mybusa [ Sat Jul 04, 2009 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
How about this thought for all you Carcano collectors (including you closet collectors). The majority of the Navy marked Carbines we see are Beretta's and from 39 up all I see of the Beretta carbines are marked for the navy.

Has anyone seen a 1939 and up Beretta Carbine that was not navy marked? I wonder if Beretta was contracted to the navy only during this time period. I have yet to see an after war 8mm conversion job that was done on a Beretta.

Just a thought for those to ponder on.
Author:  NebrHogger [ Sat Jul 04, 2009 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
That's a great idea! With any procurement like Berettas for the navy there's cause & effect. I don't think the Beretta TS is inherently better than the Brescia - they were both built to the same specs and those in my small assortment handle and shoot the same.

So! A little research is called for... like was the Italian secretary of the navy related to the Beretta family? Any admirals from that family in a position to get whatever they wanted?

We know the San Marco marines and 'Decima' - MAS-X were highly regarded by Mussolini and got pretty much the equipment they wanted. Do a google search for San Marco marines and you will find a pic showing a whole company equipped with German rifles as they are grouped around Il Duce. Clearly showing anything was possible if Mussolini said it was okay.

We also know Mr Beretta was anti Fascist so I don't believe it was he who got the navy contract. Might have had something to do with the Marines preference for the Beretta SMG - might not.

But somewhere in the procurement process, someone specified Beretta TS for the navy. Like you, I have been closely watching the various navy TS at auction, and there's quite a few more Berettas than Brescias that way.

As soon as more people figure out the markings, watch the prices take off! Hopefully before that happens, I can score one with a large anchor instead of the standard shield ( San Marco Marines? I think so) and a navy bayonet or 3.

In the meantime, I'll poke around & do some research - maybe ask around on the forums in Italy.

Oh. Closet collector? Well, I don't actually collect closets, but now that you mention it, there is at least one in every bedroom! Maybe wifey collects them! SW
Author:  Mybusa [ Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
Author:  NebrHogger [ Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
I think it was more a case that someone in the navy wanted Berettas as Mr Beretta didn't want to make military arms at all. We won't know for sure, though.

I doubt Hitler wanted the Italian navy since about the only active part of the Kreigsmarine was the subs & E-boats. Well, maybe the transport ships since they pretty much kept the DAK going in N Africa.

At the time the Italian navy surrendered, Hitler mostly wanted more infantry divisions for the Eastern front and defense of the Reich. Some razzle-dazzle secret weapon to blow England up.

So my 'A' guess is that someone in the navy wanted Berettas... Hard to say all these years later. SW
Author:  Mybusa [ Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Navy M91-38TS's and their markings
Some time in the last year of my being home bound I watched a older documentary about the Italian fleet running across the water. I have to remember which Net Flix it was. Or I may have it here in the collection.

I know from collecting the Beretta pistols that a lot if not all during the time period went to the military. One thing I like about the Beretta arms is that they seem to be of a better quality. Even the pistols did not start looking rough till late 1944.
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