Yesterday's Weapons Forums

I've mentioned how scarce the NeVCB Castelli mark is. Here's an even less often seen Castelli mark: MIDA Castelli on this Model 1910 flare gun.

I've heard of this but had not seen it before. Very unusual. SW


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now thats an interesting piece , do you collect those along with your other rifles ?

None so far but just give me a chance! SW

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Here's another Castelli mark - this time a refurb mark on an M91/28TS. Very unusual and a lot of unanswered questions here... like when it was applied to the stock and was the stock on this TS? I doubt we will ever know, but always watch for it. SW


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Like the NeVC mark above, this is an inspection cartouche. The collector will notice the crown over "4UT" ( 4th Technical Office) over a year from 1939 to 1941. Very often, these are seen on a Carcano made in or shortly after 1943.

I was stumped until I found in my notes I needed to read page 354 of Wolfgang Riepe's excellent Carcano book. The mark seen here only dater '41 is shown with a caption mentioning "private industry".

Which seems to indicate a subcontractor used the mark on certain parts made by them. NeVC above is also a subcontractor's mark.

A common mistake is identifting the 4UT as a German mark since it's very often seen on the Beretta handguns made for Germany and Roumania. It's an Italian mark showing the arm or part in question "took the gauge". SW


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The more I look around, the more I find I don't know. Like the "Ta" mark on this FNA M91/28 Navy TS. I've no idea in the world what it means, but we'll leave it here against the day information can be found.

The TS is a 1939 M91/28... which of itself needs explaining. I'm checking with the usual suspects on that one. SW


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Here's a sleeper mark that's very often overlooked. AC or CE ( or both on the same rifle) show it to be part of Italy's war reparations from Austria.

The majority were issued to Italian army troops in the colonies. The RE marked rifles were also issued to soldiers, but those have all been Carcanos... so far. Never say never!

But while casually looking over Steyr rifles in a shop or at a show, keep a straight face and haggle the price. SW


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Here's an uncommon Terni refurb mark. SW


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Here we see a fairly common theme on partisan arms - a religious symbol pressed into the stock with an empty cartridge case. Greek Orthodox crosses are often seen, but this one appears to be a 'standard' cross.

The other mark ( "RIC"???) MIGHT be connected to the civilian trading company that operated in Italian East Africa. They were known to have Carcanos and other weapons for hunting and self defense.

It's very interesting. It was a reserve auction & I don't like those so I only bid once. The seller didn't relist it. SW


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Two uncommon features here... 1910 is not often seen, and the PR steel vendor code is even more uncommon. The vendor is unknown. SW


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Footnote to the preceeding post and those related - when attempting to decipher steel codes, remember it will be for the company and not the geographic location.

Which shoots down my theory of PR standing for Prague ( Czech Republic). SW

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....dang it....I was going to say Parma-but thats a city/region...

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.............deplorable typical "bitter clinger"....

This isn't a mark but a seldom discussed feature. Notice the bolt is color case hardened. This isn't seen too often and so far, I believe it was a late war feature based on those in my collection and others I've noticed.

Given that a collector on another site recently reported the handle broke from his bolt when the rifle tipped over onto the floor, I'd use caution before deciding to fire a rifle having one of these.

I've contacted other collectors in hopes of learning methods here... like was this done with a cyanide process? Details are yet to be learned. SW


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Here we seen another unknown steel vendor code. I'll leave the pic here against the day I find out what company was represented by T.

Also seen is the Tubata mark showing a fresh liner was put into the barrel. This is actually a replacement barrel ( I checked the serial number) so the rifle was worn out TWICE. A genuine combat vet! SW

** I bid big on this & will post pics if I get it**


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**ETA** I'm going to pencil in Thyssen for this one. They were in biz making steel in 1903 and Germany wasn't at war with them at the time. Another possibility is Tula, but I question if Russia was exporting steel. SW

**ETA again** I dropped a stupid bid... and someone else dropped a stupid bid + $5. Which is no biggy - there WILL be something else come along. I was actually relieved I got outbid.

I mentioned the new Carcano book would elevate prices... but I didn't think it would be so much this quickly. There goes the genre!

It's kinda like the "storage wars" TV programs - now that people see there might be a little $ to be made, the old timers can't get the bid on storage lockers anymore. I used to have a good feel for who would be bidding on something unusual in the Carcano line but not anymore. Such is progress.

I'm sure glad I didn't put EVERYTHING in the book! SW

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Another unknown mark. Tubata is common enough & shows the bore was drilled out and a liner brazed in place. But! Tubata.2??? I've no clue. We'll leave it here pending new information. SW


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....how bout this???

"Tubata" ( Italian "Tubed"): A repair process for worn-out barrels in the 1893-c1910 period, for M91 Barrels which had "Burnt out" by the use of hot and erosive Ballistite Loaded M91/95 6,5 cartridges (before the introduction of "Solenite", a much "cooler" propellant.)

The System obviously held up well, since there seems to be no differance in the Issue and Use of "Tubata" Rifles during WW I, nor any particular notations regarding Problems in service.

For Nowadays Use of a "Tubata" M91, care should be taken, as with any 100-year-Plus Rifle, as to what Loads one uses, especially when handloading.

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....Naj puška govori!....
.............deplorable typical "bitter clinger"....

....also...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_anyone_he ... _can_shoot

http://www.slideshare.net/tcattermole/v ... w1-4444330

...so tubata just means its been rebored/relined???...thats all...???...not a province or town or steelmaker...???


....maybe it was just done TWICE...

....just a newbie -tryin to learn...and help...

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....Naj puška govori!....
.............deplorable typical "bitter clinger"....

Yes, Tubata shows the barrel has been linered and is mentioned in a number of posts here. But "Tubata.2" is something different. SW

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This isn't actually an uncommon mark but the sharpness is seldom seen. This is a refurb mark from Roma arsenal in 1922. All Roma serial numbers begin with OR = Ordnance Roma.

Roma made rifles in 1917 & 1918. Also converted thousands of 10.4 calilber Vetterlis to 6,5. Other than that, it was an artillery plant. SW


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This one takes the prize for most blatant fake marking I've ever seen. That or I'm scoffing at the uber-scarce waffen SS Carcano. But I doubt it.

The auction is in Germany or I'd drop a bid just to say I competed for the only surviving example from the ill-fated SS expedition who never returned from a beer & pizza run. SW


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