Yesterday's Weapons Forums

I think this is a good place to start a thread showing uncommon marks found on various Carcano models. I'm not saying I know what they all are, but we can discuss them.

This can also be a place to post any marks, cartouches or stamps you would like identified. Again, I don't pretend to know everything on the topic, but I have friends who are very sharp on the topic and we will make every effort to provide information.

This will be a work in progress and may well not be complete for a few years. Every time I think I have a handle on things, something else shows up.

As even beginning collectors know, there's a lot more to this collecting genre than meets the eye. SW

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Slava Ukraini!!

...excellente idea for new sticky topic thread ....I will keep my eyes open for any markings,though you will likely have already seen any I may encounter...

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....Naj puška govori!....
.............deplorable typical "bitter clinger"....

Here are a few more I had in the pic file. SW

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It's not widely known that headspace correction bolts were available for the Carcano. But headspace must not have been a pressing issue as you sure don't see them very often. The bolts are marked on the bottom of the bolt root. I previously believed they were numbered from 1 to 4, but I just got this 5 on the RE rifle from one of the Italian colonies.

Also shown is a fairly common mark - PG in a rectangle. While slogging through the German Carcano book attempting to translate a passage, I came across the notation that's for "Prova Gardone".

On the receiver & barrel it means it was fed and digested the hot proof loads. On a part such as the bolt shown, it shows it "passed the gauge". SW

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This thread is supposed to be about markings, but I feel it's well to discuss this LACK of markings.

Shown is a late war Arma Guerra M41 long rifle. No marks other than the serial number. Which is correct. Some of these will have the "4UT" = 4th Technical Office. Just an inpection stamp and has nothing to do with the Germans although they used it whaen they controlled the Arma Guerra plant.

Don't fall for any hogwash about a "scrubbed for clandestine missions" rifle. Late in the war, there was just no sense of urgency to mark stuff so they simply did not.

As shown, there is nothing in the way of marks on the bottom of the receiver, either. The only positive ID will be the serial number - beginning with around QL and ending with QZ. QV to QZ letter prefix M41s were made by the Germans. SW

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Here's a rare one. As nearly as I can tell, the Star of David shown here shows the rifle was used by the Jewish Settlement Police in Palestine before Isreal was a country.

Very rare! I have heard of 7.9 conversions with a Star of David on the receiver ring but have never actually seen one. SW

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gawd-the history in these is far more convoluted ond complicated than I ever imagined...

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....Naj puška govori!....
.............deplorable typical "bitter clinger"....

You are right! There are a gaggle of Carcanos in Cuba from the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. If bho kisses & makes up with the Cubans, wouldn't one of those be a great addition to the collection?

They would go high!

I need to do a lot more reading on the Jew's history. Like when they started populating Palestine and fighting the likes of that murdering scum, yassir arafart. SW

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This isn't actually a mark, but I feel it belongs here because it's not uncommon and not really explained anywhere else. Notice how the handguard has slots cut into it?

These are legit and show the rifle was used in N Africa. Theoretically, these cuts allowed barrel cooling thus ensuring the bolt would not get too hot in the rapid firing of close combat & seize up.

I question how effective that was, but you see it fairly often - for some reason, mostly on M91/28s.

Not everybody knows about this & you could try to use it as a price-bargaining point if you are a cheep sort. ( like me )

"But someone has cut slots in the handguard! Can't you adjust the price a little?"

Some people are shameless that way! Putting the matter more gently, some people just like to haggle prices! SW

**ETA** I think I mention it later on, but the handguard shown is from a grenade launcher TS. The launcher was deemed a bad idea ( it really was) and all usable parts were recycled. So I posted the wrong information but it has been corrected. SW

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Slava Ukraini!!

That's a very interesting handguard

Like the AOI marked M95.....me thinks it need be sent to NE Ohio to keep my AOI M88/90 company!!!

BTW Mine has that same "C" marking. I have been told it is a Serb property mark. Maybe first to the serbs then handed off to the EyeTye's ?

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It's 5 o'clock and it's watermelon time.....................
because you can't drink beer & load rockets - TXPete

Bruce,

I think the AOI stuff went to Africa first. The Brits invaded from Kenya & it wasn't much of a fight. The native levies were disarmed, & quite a bit of the AOI stuff went to India for use as trainers or for police in remote areas.

My own opinion is that the Brits gave arms to just about any partisans who were fighting the Germans. I feel some of the captured AOI stuff made its way to Yugoslavia & Tito's partisans even though they were commies.

To further this idea, the Brits gave the Jews rifles to help keep the Palestine area secure. Many of these were from AOI and N Africa.

I also have the C on my Budapest AOI. I think the Serbs had some of the AOI rifles but used other arms more often - like the M.95M rifles they modified themselves. They may have equipped other communist groups with some of the less popular ones.

Hard to say for certain, but that's where the evidence points.

SFCMac,

There is currently not a good English book on the Carcano. The best one available right now is in Italian and will cost around $150 shipped air freight from Europe. There's a German book on the topic, and it costs nearly the same amount. I can muddle my way through Italian but German drives me up the wall! Russian is MUCH easier for me.

I don't speak Italian but just collaborated on an article for an Italian magazine about Italian rifles with Russian markings. I'll scan that & post the pics when the magazine finally hits the rack in Europe.

I can't say too much right now, but I have been contacted about writing a Carcano book and have much of the narrative done. It won't be avaiable for a year or two, though.

In the meantime, you can post your questions here & I'll do my best. By no means do I know that much, but I'm on cordial terms with some of the top collectors in Italy. They have been very good about sharing information. SW

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...I believe the "st al Rut " is whats left of the importer stamp..."St Alb, VT"...CAI

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....Naj puška govori!....
.............deplorable typical "bitter clinger"....

Rocca was a company that made small parts for the arsenals and bayonets. Also some aircraft parts.

The AA is actually a stylized FNA which is correct for the Brescia arsenal.

The 8mm conversions were made up from parts laying around - there might be a date on the bottom of the receiver ring - most likely not.

Some of these have very few markings - some just an EP serial number. SW

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1953 and 1954 is as close as I can get. A company bought all the parts remaining in the FNA arsenal and made 8mm TS of them.

Some of the receivers had no marks at all and were fitted with the needed parts to be complete rifles. SW

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The rare 8mm conversion is by Heinrich Kreighoff - same outfit that made luftwaffe drillings - they make high end guns to this very day. Tiny HK on the receiver ring - H serial number letter prefix - dedicated Kreighoff serial numbers. No provision for a clip - these had a wooden block in the magazine that made them a single shot.

Rare and expensive. These were actually made during the war as an experiment. SW

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Yes, these were made up from M91/38TS parts. The v6 might be an assembly stamp. SW

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Here's another mark unique to the 7.9 TS conversion = L. Franchi. Luigi Franchi was an inspector at Brescia during the war.

However, the 7.9 conversions were made after the war. My theory - and it's only a theory = nuttin' in print - is that the Franchi company that made ( and still make to this very day) shotguns made some of the 7.9 conversions for someone else. Who then tried to palm them off onto Isreal and Arabic countries.

Not all 7.9 conversions have the Franchi mark. A collector in Europe has said the 7.9 moschettos were converted by a French company, but we have positive proof to the otherwise here.

This mark is on the 7.9 Moschetto I just grabbed off gunbroker for 50 & change. It's not terribly beat up and retains vestiges of the white "taleem" marking.

Also shown are partially scrubbed barrel markings which shows bad barrels laying around the arsenal were used. Chucked up in the boring machine and rifled.

I would REEEELY like to know what the markings were, but I'm calling that impossible to know now.

Less than 10,000 of the moschettos were converted, so they are a good grab. SW

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This mark was only used a little more than a year. 1932 to be exact. Fabb Naz d'Armi Brescia. Must have been a bother making the stamps because in 1933 they went to FNA-B.

Same everything but the stamp. A friend told me some are 1933, but I've only seen the 1932-A-X = 10 years after the fascists took over in 1922.

Something to look for to round out your M91/28 collection. SW

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Here's another refurb mark: FAET = Fabrica d'Armi Esercito Terni which is followed by the year refurb was done. 1968 in this case. I've seen Terni refurb marks into the 70s.

You normally see the mark on metal, but a few will have the stock marked, as well.

I've got a DABo refurb mark around here... somewhere but I can't find it right now. Bo is for Bologna & is a scarce mark. SW

**below FAET and to the left is BL. That's the manufacturer's mark for the Brescia arsenal. Mostly seen on receivers & barrels, it can be on other parts, too. **

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This mark isn't scarce... but I've talked about it before and no pics. The star on the top tang as shown is a refurb mark. Shows the rifle had repairs of some sort in one of the arsenals and was returned to military service.

The other refurb marks like the FAET shown above were done prior to export.

You see them in different sizes but I believe that was just a difference in the stamps of the different arsenals. SW

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