Yesterday's Weapons Forums

I need to quit posting this stuff until the auction ends. I bid 100 EUD & missed it. Another American got it. Which is fine. I just didn't want to spend any more. Plus postage was another 20 Euros.

Ah well... there's always something else I don't know I need yet. SW

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Slava Ukraini!!

Another new mark... this apparent "CAR" mark is on a 6.5 Vetterli from East Africa. I thought it might be for a specific native unit, but my friend in Italy thinks it's another refurb mark.

I haven't evidence to the otherwise, so we'll go with that.

I'm getting enough of these obscure marks together I should write a book on the topic! SW


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[..."Rare junk is still just junk."....]

no truer words have been spoken , i was once offered a HAK no2 revolver , its one of about 350 austrailian made in war years , very valuable if intact , but some idiot cut the 5" barrel to 2" stubby , i wanted it in the worst way but "fixing it" would never have been the same ......

Next to the 17 ( 1917) is a poorly-struck refurb mark. It's hard to read, but I believe it's FAG for Fabbrica d'Armi Gardone with the year directly below it. You will only see this mark on rifles refurbed at the arsenal for export to America.

This is also a good example that you will see the mark about anywhere. SW


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In 1943, the Italian king had enough of war and surrendered to the allies. There were a lot of Germans in Italy at the time, and they thought that quite a breach of etiquette. So much so that they disarmed entire Italian army units and looted arsenals of all weapons.

These were given a once-over by armorers and sent off to Germany for storage. A small percentage of these were issued to Volkssturm in the final days, but most simply gathered dust and were liberated by allied servicemen. Cav carbines were popular since they fit into an issue duffel bag.

The mark shown here shows the arm to be servicable. It's quite small and often missed.

It reads: HzA Jt3. SW


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Here is an example of a mark you should never buy - it's as phoney as slick willy's NRA membership card. Gun Parts Corp sold these razi stamps several years ago - not sure if they still do so.

A sleezy outfit "xxx xxx Lodge" has been selling 8mm conversion Carcanos for a long time that were billed as being used in North Africa. Hogwash and outright

Compare this mark closely to the one above and never buy it. I lifted the pic from a live auction so they are still around looking for a sucker. SW


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The casual observer will wonder what's remarkable about "Made in Italy" on an Italian Vetterli. Then ask yourself how often you see it... I'm guessing not very often if at all.

There is one place from which you will see this mark = Spain. Long story short, in the dark days of WW1, Italy GAVE Russia a quantity of these. They were used as trainers for a whil & then warehoused. Fast forward to 1937 when Stalin SOLD these to his commie pals in the Spanish Civil War. What a pal! He even included 100 rounds of ammo with each rifle! What a guy!

Fast forward again to the end of the SCW & the commies were beaten. The Vetts & other rifles were warehoused until the early 60s when the Franco Gov't sold them to American surplus outlets like Interarms.

Of which Sam Cummings was the main man. What a murky character! Ever see a pic of him? Me, either.

Anyway, all the rifles from Spain were marked withthe country of origin & across the pond they came.

So am I 100% sure this is from the SCW? Maybe not 100% but I'm saying there's a 75% chance.

If you see one for cheep, try to keep a straight face, peel out the $ & check back here for how the Russian profs appear. I wrote an article for an Italian magazine on the topic & will try to find my notes ( in English - the article is in Italian) with pics of Russian markings.

In the meantime, this will get you started. SW


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I wrote the above post in a hurry before I left for work and omitted something to consider...

The collector would do well to closely examine any 'Made In Italy' Vetterli before peeling out the Benjamins for it. I mean, how hard would it be to apply that mark with a set of letter stamps? I'd want to see Russian markings before $ changed hands.

But that's just me & I tend to have a suspicious streak. SW

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Keeping with the Italy/Russia/Spain idea, here's a extremely scarce mark. This is Cyrillic for "29TD" or the Russian 29th Tank Division.

As mentioned above, the Vetterli rifles were used for training. Which shouldn't be too hard to believe given the cramped interior of a tank and the length of a Vetterli.

So the n00b tankers learned close order drill with these while the Mosin-Nagants went to infantry units.

What makes this mark so very scarce is that kindly Uncle Joe Stalin was paranoid to the extreme. He didn't want tangible evidence that Russia was involved in the Spanish Civil War ( SCW) and such markings were carefully scrubbed. This one obviously not so carefully. Perhaps it was captured by Nationalists early on.

In any case, do not pass up Russina markings on any Italian rifle. I tried for this one, but the bidding greatly exceeded my disposable income.

It's featured in a Storia di Collezione magazine issue and is shown in an article by some chuckle-head who poosts here regularly.

You won't see many marks on Italian rifles much scarcer than this. SW


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** note to self: resize the pics**

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Here's something I feel connects the cav carbine shown to partisan use. We see three notches... which can mean anything or nothing. The way they appear is consistent with the rest of the stock which I feel shows them to be from WW2 era hostilities.

Your average NCO would never allow this in a regular army unit.

It's another example of the way partisans treated their weapons and something to consider if you are collecting captured arms. SW


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This image comes from an auction featuring an M38TS. Rather than bore everyone with 38TS pics, we'll just look at the scarce FNA stock cartouche.

Which is quite scarce. I tried for it but I'm not getting caught up in wild bidding.

Notice also the clear "Crusader Shield" dedicated navy mark above the E serial number prefix. That the marks are so clear hints at a vet bring-back. SW


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....I think you should go fer it...

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....Naj puška govori!....
.............deplorable typical "bitter clinger"....

The auction ended over 300 & I just can't see such wild bidding. I told everybody prices would really take off but I didn't think it would be this bad. SW

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Here's another unusual and very scarce stock cartouche. A large "Cross of Savoy" as seen onm the stock of a very late war M41. It's the only one I've ever seen. I was bidding big but a NR bidder jumped in & I'm not bidding against a troll. SW


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Here's another one you just never see... a Vetterli bayonet has been altered to fit a Carcano. Which is darn uncommon by itself but notice hot the handle is made of brass. Black paint over the brass is correct.

I lifted the pics from eGun whre it's currently at 231 EUD with 65 bidders. Meaning I wouldn't stand a chance of getting it.

Never pass one up! SW


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Another odd Carcano bayonet arrangement. Whether this was a captured rifle or a post-war set up is the question. Research is under way. SW


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picked up an M91 today from 1908. Mark on the butt stock is new to me. Just want to share it before I go look it up in my new book.

Bern

It's an older refurb mark. I have it on a Vetterli or two. SW

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Here's another 'only one I've ever seen' item. This M91/24 has been branded with an Albanian crest.

We know Italian divisions abandoned large quantities of equipment in Albania after their king surrendered in 1943. Which was assimilated by partisans and communists... but here we see Albanian nationalists must have grabbed a bit for themselves.

It's very, very uncommon. SW



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...wow...that is one rather large and unmistakable "this is OURS" mark...

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....Naj puška govori!....
.............deplorable typical "bitter clinger"....