Yesterday's Weapons Forums

Here's another shot of the T steel code - this time on an 1894 Terni barrel. Which appears to be a replacement barrel. I still think T is for Thyssen unless someone knows another steel maker from the late 1800s whose name began with T. I've considered Tula, but I think Russia was keeping their own steel close to home due to war with Japan.

Something to keep in mind - the odd steel codes will most often be seen on the very early rifles. Not always, but that's the best place to look for something like the V for Vickers steel mark. After the early 1900s, wars broke out, and many of the steel plants produced for their own country only. SW


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One more refurb mark on a 6,5 Vetterli. "S Polotti e Figlia" Polotti and sons?

Anyway, it's a refurb mark and not who converted to 6,5 caliber. That was done at Roma arsenal and will have a separate cartouche - on the original stock. SW


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Here's a better image of the German deactivation mark = the diamond shaped stamp farthest to the left. "Deco" arms are common in Germany. The barrel is drilled and the rifle is then considered demilled.

Also seen are a number of other German marks I am not presently able to explain fully. SW


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Here's another variation of the Castelli mark as seen on a Guardia de Finanzia Bodeo. Looks like Napoleone e Vittorio made mostly Bodeos. I dropped a bid on this one but do not expect to get it.

RIP 1932 is a refurb mark and an abbreviation of the Italian word for "refurb". SW


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Took the butt plate off my 1917 M91 long rifle. This one has an "E" on the top of the receiver indicating rechambering for Greece. The marks under the butt plate are in question. One is probably an inspector's mark. The other is...? Could not find it in my search for marks. Can you help with this?

Bern

OCR = Officina Costruzione (d'Artiglieria) Roma which shows where the stock was made. MS is indeed an inspector cartouche. SW

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Thanks Steve,

Great forum.

Bern

Check this out! FIAT steel! Never saw that before. Neither had the usual suspects in Italy. Also unusual is the 1919 YOM. Only a few moschettos were assembled from WW1 parts after the war. No more were made until colonial wars heated up in the 30s.

This is very likely the last WW1 moschetto made. Yes, it shows 1919, but the parts were left over from WW1. SW

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Here is something you will see when buying a 1919 M91TS for your collection. ( they are scarce as heck so don't pass one up!) The date shows 1919, but the last 9 has been stamped over an 8.


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This is common with these, and I've another just like it. These were assembled from parts laying around after the war - just like the FIAT moschetto above - the barrel was already dated, but that was changed to the actual year it was put together.

Of further interest is the serial number. It should be BI, but it was stamped BII by mistake. I think this is among the last handful made. Perhaps the armorers wanted to get done in a hurry and lock the arsenal up until the next war.


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Bottom line: don't be put off by what looks like an altered date. Just check it against the serial number list for confirmation. Again, 1919 M91TS are not seen very often at all. Of the few made, many were lost in combat in the colonies or WW2. Only a fraction have survived. Same for 1919 moschettos. SW

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This isn't about a mark per se but it is something you will see on various Italian military arms that isn't discussed elsewhere. ( this forum is dedicated to obscure information that way - stay tuned, collectors! )

Concerning the Guardia di Finanza Bodeo, it has a phosphate finish that seems identical to that on my parkerized M91TS. I checked with the usual suspects in Italy who told me it was likely done in the 50s when a lot of military surplus was refurbed to ease unemployment issues. The Bodeo is in very good condition and doesn't appear to have been fired much.

He told me the same operation was done to other military arms including M38 rifles in 7,35 and Brixia grenade launchers.

Keep that in mind for other parkerized items. Haggle the price down because of it and try to keep a straight face!


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I haven't seen this one before - FAT on a bayonet. Terni M41 bayonet, that is.

Which brings up the question: what's the difference between an M91 and M41 bayonet? When they were made. Otherwise they are pretty much the same and freely interchange. One worth more than the other? Not as far as I'm concerned.

But some eHuckster will no doubt label one or the other "RARE!!!" and list it at $500. Okay - sarcasm off. SW


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Here's one I've only seen in the German language Carcano book. Beside the navy shield on this Beretta M91/28 is a stylized square knot which is also a navy mark. Very seldom seen. Which MIGHT mean it's connected to Decima MAS or San Marco Marines. Strictly my own theory.

Also a good pic of the navy "Crusader shield" and civilian block serial number without a letter prefix. For some reason the navy used a lot of Berettas. Maybe a family member was in naval procurement. (more speculation on my part).

Keep your eyes open for the square knot! SW


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I just got this at auction so better pics when I have it in hand. I plugged 'Turazzina' into google.it which got me only people's names. So far my "A" theory is that this brass plate shows the Carcano was a prize or award. Possibly a retirement gift. Research is ongoing. SW

*ETA* The plate shows the gun is connected to the Fascist youth group, GIL.


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Yet another unknown mark. Notice AEI on the stock - never saw that before. The pic is from a German auction and might be related to that country. I know German laws require all kinds of marks on the metal. I'll ask around about it. SW


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Lots o' good stuff on the Germ. auctions! Here's a different Roma refurb mark on a Terni M91 long rifle. SW


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Cool! Great stuff.

This lion symbol is seen on buttplates - mostly used by FNA Brescia - but also on cav carbine bayonets as shown.

It's for Nanutti Beltrame of Ausonia who made small parts during the war. They still make scissors and knives. I recently bought a stag handled automatic knife marked Beltrame. SW


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So many variations! Here's another Terni refurb mark - this time on a Beretta M91/28. SW


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I'm not entirely convinced this one is legit, but you might see it sometime so we should at least discuss it.

Story goes many of the postwar 8mm conversions went to Israel where they were quickly sold to Arabs countries... by Israel. I'm, better prepared to believe they were sold to Arab countries by an Israeli arms dealer and not the country proper.

This is one of the enigmatic 1941 Terni conversions that does not appear to have been used as a military trainer. They aren't common but are seen a few times a year at auction. I have one.

But. All that someone would need is surplus Star of David stamps to make a few of these. I've no idea what the stamp even means. I have one of the TS captured by Brits in WW2 that was sent to Palestine for Jewish settlers. They were used against Arab extremists and have a different size Star.

So believe what you will. I'm leaning toward not legit pending new information. SW


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Speaking of 'might not be legit'... Here's another variation of the Bavaria Rural Police mark. I can't say for sure it's fake, but I still feel all that would be needed to make a regular Carcano into a BRP is a pantograph - possibly a letter stamp set.

If I get a chance at one for decent money, I'll grab it and encourage other collectors to do likewise. Just don't sell an organ to finance it.

Other marks on the metal are contemporary German proofs ( pic is from eGun dot de) - the stock mark is a stylized PL for Luigi Pulveroni. SW


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