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| Author: | A square 10 [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
does that say 1939 ? what is that significance if these were abandoned in 43 ? sorry if i seem slow at times , this is not my usual area of interest |
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
Having never seen one before, I'm not able to comment. However nothing sez the crest and year were added at the same time. Remember guys, you see something like this at a gun show or an ad somewhere, please get the seller's contact info! SW |
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
Here's another variation of the Bavaria Rural Police mark. One is shown above marked on the magazine, but here we see it marked on the receiver. The small marks are German proofs - I lifted the pic from eGun.de As always with Bavaria Rural Police marks, proceed with caution - it would be very easy to fake. SW zBRP1 (606x279).jpg [ 108.3 KiB | Viewed 30170 times ] |
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| Author: | HerrMesser [ Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
Written in english and not some European language?? Rad |
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
Ironic, ain't it? Story goes that since Americans were in control of the sector containing Bavaria, stuff like this was marked however the people in charge wanted. I think more M1 Carbines were issued to Bavaria Rural Police than Carcanos. I've seen pics and those are also marked in English. SW |
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
We see a lot of Italian rifles that had been refurbed at Terni before export to America. Typically they show "FAT" ( Fabbrica d'Armi Terni) and a year. On this 6,5 cal M38, we see DAV which shows refurb at the arsenal in Verona. Not common at all. Also unusual is how the original stock cartouche has been partially obliterated. Terni really scrubbed them off. DAV translates loosely as "Director of Artillery, Verona". This is from another German auction. I really need to get over to Europe & score stuff like this. ( I'd buy the whole rifle & then hand the barreled action back to the seller - ship the rest home) Mybusa sez we need a road trip to Albania for militaria & stuff like this. My spies tell me the roads & lodging arrangements aren't too good there. SW zDAV1 (1024x366).jpg [ 220.47 KiB | Viewed 30159 times ] |
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
Up the post a ways is a pic of my M91/28 which has a Star of David marked on the barrel. Here's a pic I lifted from another site showing a Star of David on the stock. While there's nothing in print to verify my opinion, I sincerely believe it was issued to Jewish Settlement Police in Palestine - probably in the 40s. You just don't see this very often. SW zMark3.jpg [ 30.7 KiB | Viewed 30149 times ] |
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
Here's one that has me baffled. On this very nice 8mm conversion we see on the receiver a diamond-shaped stamp. It's the same geometry as the NeVC-B mark which is uber scarce in itself. Except this conversion was done at FNA after the war. This is NOT a Kreighoff. I was trying to think what it might be & pretty much ruled out a refurb mark. These were not shot. No clips have ever been found... So if it was never fired, why refurb it? Sure it's nice, but I have a nicer one that wasn't refurbed - or shipped off to an Arabic country. And it hasn't such a mark. I lifted the pic from eGun.de where the seller claims it was a Volkssturm piece. I say  to that. Other than front line troops had a wide variety of 6,5 Carcanos and other captured rifles from which to choose if they were able to dodge using a panzerfaust.Doesn't look like any Euro proof mark I've ever seen... I'm at a loss and have contacted the usual suspects in Italy for their take on it. Only one I've ever seen like that. 8mmC (627x296).jpg [ 113.1 KiB | Viewed 30148 times ] |
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| Author: | Herr Mario [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
...is is a definite stamp???or is it just like a chunk of metal was removed-as if to take off a bad burr/gouge in the metal and fix it up...looks pretty deep on this monitor 
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
Here you go, Comrade Artist... I has circled the mark in question. Looks like DA and numbers? Which is consistent with a refurb mark... but why refurb one of these? Research continues. SW zMark4B.JPG [ 24.9 KiB | Viewed 30145 times ] |
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| Author: | Herr Mario [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
....I needs new glasses...  ...I was lookin at the other mark    ....I blame my monitor.....and Bush......   
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
The other mark - behind the serial number - is a remnant of the original barrel marking. Since it was worn out, the old marks were turned off in a lathe,, the barrel was drilled out to 8mm and rifled. The work was done quickly - probably machinists working on a per piece basis - and little effort was made to completely remove the old marks. SW |
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| Author: | Et2ss [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
 Here is another FAT mark that made it back here to the states...........on an M1 Carbine |
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
A little out of my comfort zone, but I believe Italians made their own stocks which were added at refurb. If you're the patient sort, you can still buy M1 Carbines and Garands from Terni. Big money and delivery might take years. SW |
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
Mystery solved!  My main man in Italy sez it's "a German deactivation mark".I learn something every day whether I want to or not! SW
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
This is an uncommonly sharp stock cartouche on an 1870/87 10.4x47R caliber Vetterli. It shows the original single shot rifle has been converted to the Vitali magazine system. 700,000 of these were subsequently converted to 6,5 caliber and a different magazine system was added. There will be another cartouche for that which usually shows that work was done at the Roma plant. You will see the 6,5 caliber variety often advertised as "Vetterli-Vitali" but the Vitali magazine is gone. A trivial detail to be sure, but it might help you ask the right question some day. SW zCartouche1.jpg [ 97.19 KiB | Viewed 30157 times ] |
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
Here's another interesting mark about which little is known. PM is shown on the stock & I'll have a better pic when I have it in hand - just grabbed it off gunborker. I mentioned PM earlier and thought it might be a police mark... I now doubt that since this M91/24 is from Albania. Of further interest is that it has been put into the stock with a die. I have another PM mark ( shown above in another post) that was branded onto the stock with a hot iron. I'm checking with the usual suspects in Italy to see if the Regio Esercito had military police. THis is what's fun for me... learning! SWzPM1.jpg [ 35.9 KiB | Viewed 30149 times ] |
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| Author: | Bernthgrate [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:38 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks | |||
Just unpacked a beautiful 91TS from Gunbroker. There is a mark on the left side stock just below the receiver that I could not find in the book. Can you tell me anything about this? The mark is not very clear but maybe you can recognize it. This carbine has a matching numbered bolt and nice wood.
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| Author: | NebrHogger [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks |
It's an inspector's cartouche but I can't tell which one. At least you won't go broke buying a bayonet for it - altered to take standard M91 bayos. I say it's a good grab. Nice piece of lumber, too. What year? So many of these were upgraded to M91/28 they aren't that easy to find for decent money anymore. SW |
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| Author: | Bernthgrate [ Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:19 pm ] | |||
| Post subject: | Re: Uncommon marks | |||
1916. It looks unissued. Not a scratch on the wood. Here's a picture of the bottom of the barrel.
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