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gschwertley
veteran member
Posts: 70
(11/21/04 8:57 pm)
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Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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There are numerous posts on the gun forums about what can be done with Turkish 8mm milsurp ammo (besides just shoot it as is). I myself do not like to fire corrosive primed ammo if it can be avoided. When I bought my first batch of the Turk ammo, most of the case necks were split. I decided to simply dump all the powder and reload the powder and bullets into boxer primed commercial cases. Since the Turks stuffed the cases full to the base of the bullet with 49 grains of their cut sheet powder, I decided to reduce the load to 40 grains. I do not like punishing loads, and the reduction was less than 20% so I figured it was safe. This reload with the original steel cased bullet (more about that later) was fine in all respects.
So recently I was thinking, I really don't need a bunch more of 8mm bullets, but I could size them down to smaller sizes like .312 for the 7.7 x58 and/or the 7.62x54 or even conceivably .308. Or, they could be paper-patched up to .330 size for the M95's.
Then there is all of that powder. If you bought 10 bandoleers like I recently did at the gun show, that gives you 700 rounds. I bought these for 4.95 per 70, so rounded off is close to 50 dollars. Out of that 700 rounds, at 49 grains apiece, the yield is 34,300 grains, divided by 7000 grains in a pound equals 4.9 pounds of cut sheet powder.
Summary: For 50 bucks, you get 4.9 pounds of powder and 700 bullets, with you providing the labor of "pullage". That's a pretty good deal. I haven't weighed the cases, but you can take the brass to the recyclers and get around 30 cents a pound for it as scrap, so you even get a little of your money back.
Now for the cautionary notes. Of course, the loading manuals tell you to never try to use powder that you don't know the properties of, never extrapolate load data from one cartridge to another, etc. Yes, we all know this, and we are adults and we sure as heck don't want to blow ourselves up. And I have heard the term "voodoo reloading" used before. Having said all that, I have also heard that the cut sheet Turk powder has a burning rate somewhere around IMR 3031, we know how much the Turks loaded into an 8mm, we all know to start out low and many of us don't like "hot rod" loads for reasons of comfort anyway. The word that comes to mind here is "prudence".
About the steel cased Turkish bullets: I don't like the sound of "steel cased" and "bullets" in the same breath. I would prefer to use cupro-nickel which must be softer. However, I don't think the Turks would use steel cases on their bullets that were as hard as barrel steel to begin with, and we have to remember that we are shooting these in MILSURP weapons, hopefully, and not our prized Winchester or Remington. Some of us might be amazed to know how many rounds have already been fired out of some of the rifles we own.
Lastly, the matter of the live primers remaining in the scrap brass cases. I suppose we should be good guys and desensitize these before lugging them off to the recyclers. I figure if I leave them outside in a bucket of rainwater all winter that should about do the trick. Maybe while we are waiting, the price of brass would go up.
That reminds me of another little story. During the Vietnam war, the price of brass world-wide went up due to a shortage that was caused by our consumption of ammunition in the war. There were Vietnamese field commanders (our "allies") who would constantly plead for more 105 mm artillery ammo. At first, we thought, "Hey, that's great, they want to fight for a change". That is, until we found out that some of these commanders were just having the rounds fired off into the countryside so they could get the brass cases and sell them to the Chinese scrap merchants. A great waste of Joe Bluecollar's tax money back in the world, to say nothing of the wildlife and civilians wasted in such random gunnery.
yockey5
Owner
Posts: 2872
(11/21/04 10:00 pm)
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Re: Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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I have pulled a lot of junk albie ammo for components and come out quite well with it.
Don
Yesterdays Weapons forums
http:pub151.ezboard.com/bsteyrmannlicher
Love my Yugo 59/66
LoLo25643
Moderator host
Posts: 893
(11/22/04 7:43 am)
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Re: Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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Good post. You can get tons of this ammo very cheap right now. I'd be willing to bet that it's the least expensive ammo going on right now.
Your Pard: LoLo
TNGunsmoke
Moderator host
Posts: 1609
(11/22/04 9:02 am)
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Re: Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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Yep. Right now you can.
Come visit us and discuss the Weapons of Yesterday Yesterdays Weapons Forums
gschwertley
veteran member
Posts: 77
(11/22/04 11:34 pm)
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Re: Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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Forgot to mention that the labor of pulling the bullets on the Turkish 8mm is not difficult. Many have split case necks, so the bullet can easily be removed with the fingers. For the ones that are still solid, just place the bullet tip on the edge of a board on your work bench. The cartridge will be at about a 15 degree angle to the bench. With a plastic mallet or similar (for those of you who will just use another board), bump the side of the cartridge up near the neck while rolling it along. This brass is soft and the bullet will loosen quickly. You will get the hang of it quickly. You do not repeat, do not, need a collet puller or inertial puller.
gschwertley
saddle soap
Posts: 532
(4/19/05 2:30 pm)
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Re: Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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The jacket material on the Turkish bullets is cupro-nickel with a steel wash on the outside to reduce fouling.
M14man
high pow'r
Posts: 138
(4/20/05 10:09 pm)
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Re: Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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gsch... I like to read your stuff. It is accurate,concise, and interesting. You write well....and put it in words so much better than I could
yockey5
Coffee Pot
Posts: 5325
(4/21/05 10:01 am)
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Re: Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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I totally agree with you M14man. I remember when Gary emailed some info to me the 1st time and I asked him if I could post it for all to read. Now the rest is history here on our forums. Thanks Gary.
Don
Yesterdays Weapons forums
http:pub151.ezboard.com/bsteyrmannlicher
I hate flys!
mikmarjon
Attic man
Posts: 3775
(4/22/05 12:44 am)
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Re: Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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I actively look for Garys post They are always informative.
mike
come visit us and discuss the weapons of yesterday
yesterdays weapons forums
pub151.ezboard.com/bsteyrmannlicher
tetsau
Troy Bilt
Posts: 158
(4/25/05 8:10 pm)
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Re: Doing the Math on Turkish 8mm Milsurp Ammo
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You lost me on the math, that's alway's been my weak subject
But I've pulled bullet's on hundred's of these thing's. I have
about 8 pound's of Good powder. Not counting the 50 or so
7.5 Swiss I've used it on. Cheap stuff. Good stuff. A little hot.
I cut the powder down about 8 grain's. After A good lecture
from Kaiser Bill. But man it work's great. I won't shoot corrosive Ammo. Never again. To hard on the rifle, Too hard on
me.
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