Yesterday's Weapons Forums

So, I have a Japanese t-99 and i am interested in doing my own reloads. Can somebody make me a shopping list and a how too?

If you already have a basic reloading outfit - press, scale & simiilar items - www.grafs.com has about all you will need for bullets, brass & dies.

If you are not going to be handloading a LOT of ammo, the Lee dies will be just fine and are more favorably priced. SW

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Slava Ukraini!!

I am new to reloading so I will need everything, is it best to get the basic stuff at a retail outlet and get the specific stuff on graffs.

Okay, here is a thread that I salvaged from the old YW site when this question was asked by another newbie reloader at the time. Many of the basic questions about "what to buy" are answered in it.


HardwareHacker
Beginner in need of advice
I'm new to this forum, and about to become new to reloading in general. Most of my shooting to date has been with calibers which are popular and readily available. Now I seem to be drifting into some of the older foreign military rounds such as 7.5x55 Swiss and 8x56R. I've helped some friends reload in the past, but never had my own setup or tried it without someone else's experience to lean on.
My first specific question is about reloading dies. There is a large spread in prices between different brands, and each one (of course) claims to be the best.
Among the big names such as RCBS, Hornady, Lee, etc. are there any huge differences? Any which should be avoided? I don't have a huge budget, but buying tools which I will wind up replacing in a year or two is false economy. I could use some advice on how to do things right the first time.
Question number two is about case forming. RCBS offers an expander die for making 8x56R brass from 7.62x54R cases. Looks like forming them this way will save money and insure a good supply, but are they as good as factory brass? Do they hold up to as many reloadings?
Should I instead lay in a lifetime supply of brass while it is available? I shoot only paper and don't need heavy loads, so I should be able to keep recycling my brass for a long time.
I'd appreciate the benefit of any hands-on experience on these two topics.

Thanks
HH


yockey5
Welcome to yesterdays!

I always buy Lee dies, unless I get a chance to buy RCBS at a cheap price. The dies will last your lifetime and then some, if you use clean brass, and lube your brass.
I would buy Graf's brass, and be done with it were I you. Since you will not be loading hot, they should last many loadings. Converting 7.62x54r leaves you with a short necked cartridge that will work, but I personally don't like.
Welcome to the wonderful world of reloaders.

mikmarjon
It's hard to beat lee's reloading equipment and it has a life time guarantee. As to the press, everyone has their own opinion there. I have a lee turret press which has either 3 or four holes for dies in the top and the newer ones are auto indexing. It's tremendous help that you have already helped with reloading before, in that you already know the mechanics of it so to speak. The first thing I would do is investigate a kit from lee with the powder measure and the scales along with the press, this will help keep the cost down. I would get (just My opinion) A lyman brass trimmer, You might be able to get that off of ebay. Then before I even thought about reloading anything I would buy me some reloading manuals so I would make sure I had safe loads to start with. The rest you sort of learn as you go. Once you get started if you have any questions just give us a holler and we'll be glad to help you out if we can.

M14man
Regarding brass, get it while you can, as much as you can. Sometimes it gets rare. Also be aware that brass can become brittle thru age. Uhh 30 years ago I hoarded 1000s of 30:06 rds and brass. I get maybe a 25% neck crack in some after a firing or two. Same with my old 30:40 Krag brass. I don't over load either, but you will lose some over time. As for presses, Dillon guaranteed theirs for life, parts too. Dies; Lee are fine, RCBS is fine.

yockey5
Mick, have you tried annealing the old brass?

M14man
It's hard when most are loaded.
On the ones that are not, no I never tried it.

yockey5
I think you will find it to put new life in the brass. They will not be as brittle and more willing to flex.

gschwertley
Hardware Hacker:

I don't want to sound like the old crock that I am, but many of your questions can be answered by reading back through the many posts on this forum. Lots can be learned about loading the 8x56R on this forum. It may not be generally known, but this is something of a center of quality for loading 8x56R. Don started this website up if (I am not mistaken) for those of us who are queer for the M95, so it's natural that this has happened here.
I'll run through a few of your questions. You can convert 7.62x54R cases as substitutes for 8x56R, but they will be a taste shorter (no big deal), and 7.62x54R brass tends to be thinner than 8x56R, so you might be limited to lead bullets. Often with such conversion, you just can't get proper bullet pull (tension) using jacketed bullets.
You don't have to buy case forming dies to do this; use the fire-forming technique. There are plenty of instructions on how to do this on the net, just google "fire forming cases" and you will hit a rich strike.
Dies are dies, some just cost more, and these usually have improved cosmetics, but functionally, Lee gets the job done. I have about 50/50 RCBS/Lee; the RCBS dies are nicer to look at, but the Lees work just as well. Lee has a real price advantage with the odd-ball milsurp calibers.
Lee makes a cast iron press now that is as good or better than the RCBS rock chucker that I have used for years. I don't like Lee scales or powder measures, RCBS is worth the extra money. You can spend a ton of money on case trimming stuff (and I have), but lately all I use is the simple, stupid little "Zip Trim" that Lee makes. If it breaks, they will replace it, but I haven't pulled the string out yet.
Get a vernier caliper for taking your case and cartridge o/a measurements; you won't be sorry. A plastic one is good enough as long as it's precise.
It's only my opinion, but don't waste money on a "powder trickler." You can find ways to trickle powder (like a rolled piece of tablet back) without one.
You can spend money on a case tumbler, but you can skip this and just put the brass in a pillow case, tie a knot in it and wash them in the washing machine; other liquids can be used. This is an area that we have talked at length about in this forum.
The 8x56R brass that Graf sells is worthwhile. It is not only a time saver, but if you have some left over, I don't think you will ever lose money on it, not as long as we can own and shoot M95's (and the odd 35M) in the US. When Grafs runs out (as they have and will again), you will see the price go up when you can find it.
If you really want to express your insanity, get involved in bullet casting and you can come back here with 150 more questions.
Oh, you mentioned the Swiss 7.5x55 too. Wonderful cartridge, and the only thing a little tricky about it is that you must be careful about cartridge over-all length. Most "modern" Swiss rifles in this caliber have very short throats, so bullet selection and seating depth are critical.

Kar98AZfan
Welcome HH.Everybody has covered your questions well.I'll only add a word of caution-loading for these older calibers can become as addicting as the rifles themselves! -TR

Et2ss
Welcome HdweHckr.

If you can't get Graf's brass for 8 X 56r, 7,62 conversion is easy. Most of it was covered earlier. Befor I cast my own bullets, I would size down .338 bullets in an inexpensive LEE sizer. They have one available for the .329 for around 20 or so dollars. I just ran the 7,62 brass into the LEE 8X56 dies about half way to expand the neck (lube necks first) loaded the rounds with the resized bullets to a starting load listed with the lee dies, and fired them through my M95's. Now I do segregate & mark the cases used in each rifle. Then I just neck size the brass (instead of full length) to extend the life of the brass. Oh yeah I use new Lapua Brass. Never tried Prvi or Wolf brass.

HardwareHacker
Thanks to all for your replies and for the welcomes. Think I'm gonna be spending some time here in the future.
Seems like the verdict on re-forming 7.62 brass to 8x56R is 'avoid', which is exactly the first-hand experience I needed to tap into. Yes, I could have found the info by reading through lots of prior postings, however I was in a bit of a hurry. I had been chasing a set of RCBS 8x56 dies on eBay which has already hit $45 with over two days to go and had to decide whether to keep bidding on them. I suspect that they are running that high partly because they include the case re-forming tool.
Given this definitive answer, I went ahead and ordered a supply of brass from Grafs instead, along with their last (at the moment, at least) set of Hornady 8x56R dies for about the same price as the used RCBS dies on eBay.

I got bit by the M95 bug last weekend -- found two really clean 'Budapest' guns at a Big 5 store in Albuquerque. Guess I caught the department manager in just the right mood since he cut me enough of a discount that I was able to buy both of them. Now I have to figure out how to feed these new pets.

The M95 board was actually what led me here. User 'Gitano' over there posted the info that this may be Grafs' last lot of brass in this caliber, so I thought I'd better stop thinking and do something about it. I'll try to find time to take some closeup pictures of the new toys and post them on that board soon. Maybe the combined wisdom of the group can help me figure out what kind of trouble I've gotten myself into this time.

yockey5
You can't go wrong, I kinda like these old thumpers!

Et2ss
You can get a set of 8X56r LEE dies for $ 21.00 from Midway.
And it comes with the shellholder.

Again you don't need the RCBS reformer, which if I recall correctly is just a decapper/neck expander combo. As far as forming from 7,62. No need to avoid, that's all I use. Would be nice to have the Graf's with the proper headstamp but if you see the formed stuff with the 7,62 X 54 headstamp there still is no confusing the two
Now to get into this......

Cheap Bullet Casting

txpete
welcome to the forum.great guys here and if you need some help just ask .
get into casting your own it will save you a bunch in the long run .been casting now for 30 years and shoot cast in all my handguns and rifles.
again welcome and hope you don't like cats

HardwareHacker
Casting

Sounds like casting is something I need to try. Someday. Once I get past the basics. I must be crazy to be picking up a new hobby with all that's happening around here right now....

Thanks for the responses.

Pete -- too late, I'm a cat owner. Of my four, the oldest (22 yrs) was my father's faithful companion while he went through Alzheimers, and he wanted her taken care of. The youngest (2 yrs) belonged to my ex-wife. She came home to die a couple of years ago and once again I wound up with custody of the critter. The middle two get to stay here subject to good behavior. They've been warned that if they make trouble they go out with the coyotes.

Bill

Here's another salvaged thread from the old YW site that might be useful to the questions asked:

MasterCork
If a guy is starting from scratch into reloading what should he get? A basic Lee press or a somehting like the Rock Chucker II? Ebay is loaded with stuff. Are dies interchangeable between Lee, RCBS, Dillion etc?
I have been putting off reloading for some time. At least I have a supply of once fired brass.

yockey5
First get the book, reloading manuals can be found relatively cheap, and will be your best investment for reloading. Now read it.
The dies are interchangeable with the presses. I have a Lee press, and a RCBS rock chucker. I have lee dies, RCBS dies, and herter dies. Lee scales, and Lyman scales. Most of these things will never be worn out by the reloader. All that is left to do is read it again, ask questions, load them up, and enjoy what you have done. Do take note here, you will not save any money, but you will open up another world of enjoyment and conquest! Good luck!
coffee pot

nam barney

Casting Man
Posts: 1002
(1/8/06 4:34 pm)
Follow Don's advice. Do a lot of reading. In manuals, Magazines and on this and other forums. Never be afraid to ask questions on this board. Some of the most knowledgeable reloaders in the world are present here and they will be more than happy to assist you.
Always remember; the dumb question is the one that remains unasked!!!
As for what brand of equipment--- that is as varied as "Which pick-up truck is the best?" Its a matter of preference and affordability. I have tried three or four brands and each have their good and bad points. I finally settled on the one that fit my needs and budget. Just that simple.
Good luck and welcome to another fraternity of "Good old boys"

Nam

txpete
one of the best things you could do is find someone that you can sit down with and load up a few rounds.I have helped out a bunch of people get started.nothing beats some hands on training .
the lee anv. kit is a good start has everything but the dies.they have these on sale sometimes at midway for $70.00 +or-.
www.midwayusa.com

as nam says if you have a problem hollar out someone here will jump in and give you a hand.
pete
handloading is worse than the milsurp bug and don't let anyone tell you that your going to save money...your just going to do ALOT more shooting.
controling your ammo supply is..priceless
pete

yockey5
I started back in the 70s with all lyman stuff, no putor, no buddies doing it. I just read the lyman book I had at the time and started burning up 30-30 in my lever action 94 just so I could reload some more! All of it got lost in the shuffle somewhere. I didn't know of another soul in the gun world back in those days. I did keep a current Shooters Bible back then, it was the only way that I knew there must be other nuts out there some place!

crunchman
What all the guys have said! I started with the Lee Anniversary kit and a Lyman Guide (which I still think is the best one around). I've used Lee, Lyman, Redding, just about all of the brands (except Dillon) and they are all good.

mikmarjon
as all of them have said, read read read. Reloading manuals can be had from most any source that handles the equipment.I got my first manuals from ebay, I believe it was 6 of them for 10.00 as far as the equipment goes, all are good but it's hard to beat Lee. The starter kits that they have are killer. I started with a lee turret press with three stations and I love it.
The advantage here is that you have all of the dies in the st to work with in a production type setup. You can load up a bunch in a hurry if you want to. A lot of folks like to reform one type of brass to something else, for that it's best to have a single station press.Once you get into it you'll wonder why you waited so long.

HerrMesser
Like everyone says study reloading manuals and get an outfit that you think will work for you, they just about all work. I started in 1972 when I bought my friends herters setup. Came with a lyman 45th edition manual also. Some of the more expensive calibers will pay for them selves when compared to factory ammo. If you have wildcats it is the only way to go.

Ross95966
I sometimes think it ironic that the more experience I gain, the more used tools I buy. As a beginner, I didn't know if something unfamiliar and cheap could be useful.
Very often there are folks in your circle who have unused tools they will share, often at low cost or even free. If you borrow someones press, you will get to experience for yourself if it will work for you. If you haven't tried it you have no basis for comparison. Like investing in a gun or a truck, buying blind is chancy.
Ask your friendly dealer for all the free data pages the powder companies hand out: they provide the security of a good cross-check on loads, and straight from the horse's mouth, too.
Loading manuals are from powder manufacturers, bullet makers, loading tool makers. Each has a useful bias, but you need to be aware that there is a bias.
You will be glad that you finally started to roll your own.

gschwertley
What Pete says I believe carries a lot of weight. It is nice to have a mentor to go through the basics with you. When you're starting out, it's often hard to visualize things reading strictly from the book. Somebody who knows what they're doing going over it with you is great. My mentor was my older cousin Rich, who showed me the basics, then handed me the Speer book and said, "Now read everything that's in this." He showed me rifle techniques first, then pistol & revolver. Information and help available on the internet now is a great source of information that we didn't have back when I started around 1984.
There are a couple of basic single stage presses that it would be hard to go wrong with. In my opinion these are the RCBS Rock Chucker and the new(er) Lee Classic Cast press. Both are strong but reasonably priced. Unless you can borrow stuff to try it out as Ross suggested, it will be hit or miss as to what you will like. In time, you will develop preferences for certain makes/styles of equipment. I don't use all the same stuff myself; I use a mix of RCBS and Lee and a sprinkling of other items from various makers. As I have stated before, I prefer RCBS in general, but Lee is a good compromise between price and quality. In both cases, if you are not happy with something of theirs that you bought, you can send it back and usually they will make it right.
I never have "graduated" to a progressive press. I have never counted speed as a particular attribute in reloading. After all, it's a hobby for me and I don't have production quotas. And, after 22 years of doing it, I'm still learning the finer points myself.