Yesterday's Weapons Forums

Hello Everyone,

I would like to know your thoughts, and if you have one of these rifles, what you use to make up your loads.

I read that this rifle and cartridge were developed before nitrocellulose powders were available, and the cartridges were subsequently loaded with black powder. Did designers anticipate the coming of smokeless powders and higher chamber pressures?

Your thoughts?

Many thanks,

Richard

Richard,

I use the Lee .329 bullet meant for 8x56R. I slugged the bores of both my Kropatscheks to find they are .330 which is what my bullet mold throws.

I use that and 20.0 grains of Accurate Arms 5744 for a mild load that shows accuracy potential.

I think black powder could be used, but have to wonder if the fouling from BP would be worth it. BP is best in the larger bore rifles in my experience, and the smaller foul quickly.

5744 was designed to be a black powder substitute, and I've always had good luck with it.

I have also read the 8x60R round was originally loaded with black powder but have to wonder if that wasn't intended for the Portugese Guedes single shot rifle which used the same cartridge as the Kropatschek.

My take is that the Guedes was a hold-over from the single shot/long bayonet days. The one shot was fired, and close combat ensued!

While I haven't a link or book for reference, I feel the blackpowder round was dropped with the adoption of the Kropatschek repeater.

Nothing would prevent experimenting that way, though. As with any other BPCR, be sure to leave no air space between powder and bullet. SW

**BTW, welcome to YW... where stuffiness and rude remarks are not allowed!! **

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Indeed, welcome, hope ya like it here

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Thanks for your replies and your warm welcome.

I just phoned our nearby gun shop. They have AA5744 in stock.

I also looked it up on line. Some guy is using it in his Marlin .444 and he's so happy that his grin is wider than his face.

I'll keep you folks posted on how this works out.

BTW: Earlier today I tried 24 rounds of 8X57J in a Model 88, using 42.4 grains of Pioneer substitute black powder and 165 grain cast GC. There was some fouling in the bore, but not enough to hurt accuracy. Cleaning was easy. Five wet patches and the bore was clean. Two more to dry it and one to RIG it.

I can see the problems that this powder would cause with a pitted bore.

I can also see the problems with my shooting budget. More than twice as much Pioneer is needed at nearly $30 a pound versus $22.50 a pound for the Accurite Arms powder.

Many thanks again and kind regards,

Richard

Another good smokeless powder to substitute for black powder IN OBSOLETE CENTERFIRE CARTRIDGES is SR 4759. Emphasis on the "9" because IMR makes another powder with a number that is close.

4759 is also excellent for reduced loads in many "modern" centerfire cartridges. I've used it for years with great satisfaction.

I've used both AA 5744 and SR 4759 and like them both but I think I prefer 4759. The charge weights are fairly close between the two powders for a given application.