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 Post subject: 35 years today
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 5:39 am 
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The Butcher
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Location: Occupied Vlaanderen (belgium)
The fall of Saigon.
My respect to all SEA vets, those who made it and those who didn't.

Best Regards,
A


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:25 am 
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Brigadier General
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i remember and i second that sentiment , i wont forget


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:33 pm 
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VA-75 Spook
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....I recall being in the Intel Center onboard the carrier watching all the traffic andreports coming in-and feelin' very depressed... :-?

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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 6:07 am 
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Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
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Second tour, I was by an ARVN boot camp in northern I Corps fairly often, and to watch the abject apathy and lack of motivation, Helen Keller could have seen the end coming.

The majority of the ARVNs did not want to fight, and when the fight was going badly, they would not. Saw some throw their rifles down and run for it... on more than one occasion.

Did any perish of gunshot wounds to the back? Gosh - that's been many years ago, and my memory fails me. If they didn't, they certainly should have. :?
SW

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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:48 pm 
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Brigadier General
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all is lost when one wont even stand up for his own country , but then i dont know those people well and i have no basis to make any statements from regarding their apathy ,

i do know form our point of view that it seemed that the likes of hanoi jane got just what they wanted and that convinced me that i was correct in my analysis of those early 'democrats' in the making , they can say it aint so till the cows come home , but they were manipulated by the commie infiltrators in those days and have gone to that side ever since ,


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 12:15 am 
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Lance Cpl
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For many of us it is Long Ago and Far Away, but we never forgot how Our Goverment Leaders, The Press and many, if not most Civilians, treated us. I have researched this Vietnam experience for the last 40 plus years, through Books, Documentaries, the reflection of my participation and discussions in forums like this, but have yet to learn of one convincing answer as to our true objective. There are many theories and explanations and maybe its a combination of all of them or maybe it's none. Regardless of which one applies, 58,000 plus American Soldiers paid the price for this 16 year war. For those of us, by the grace of God, who came back, we were confronted by a Nation who just wanted to forget it ever happened, while the Jane Fonda's of the world and the hippie generation disgraced and blamed our Soldiers for their participation and the Wars Failure.
Welcome home my Brothers! Ron


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 1:26 pm 
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well said ,

i think perhaps Kennedy's intentions were good , but i think somewhere in the process between advising and fighting things got politicized and all perspective was lost , after that it became a second korea ,

not everyone on the homefront felt or acted as those that got the press did , i chalk up a lot of that to the willingness of the media to give that element all of the publicity ,

i worked in an international corporation at that time , i was in the assembly department , both the alloys and iron foundry as well as the manufacturing engineering department daily , my father was the VP of methods engineering , i was exposed to blue and white collar folks and their freely offered opinions - every day in 67 , 68 , 69 & 70 ,
i can tell you there was almost unanimous support for our troops , and at the same time differing opinions on the war , none of the working people sided with the hippies and agitators ,
what you remember is students missled by commie agitators that were purposely set up to disrupt and alter the US foreign policy , and the election processes of this country from within - they succeeded


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Tue May 04, 2010 6:27 pm 
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Lance Cpl
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Much of what you said is correct and I thank you for your understanding. However, when the Silent Majority remains silent then the press sucessfully uses their tools of the young militants to influence a negative image. I also agree from what I have reseached, that there was a defined Military Strategy, this was changed many times during the coarse of the war to accomodate public sentiment in the USA and throughout the world. Consider the fact that it wasn't until late 1971 into 1972 that we first bombed Hanoi and Hiaphong and this was only done to influence the North Vietnamees to enter into peace negotiations. In addition, our tactics on the ground to take an area, at the cost of many lives, then withdraw shortly thereafter, only to have to retake the same area a few weeks later, defied logic. The lessons to be learned from Vietnam are more than Military Strategy, the main focus is in the support from the public and the conviction to finish the Job. I'am not sure we have learned that yet! Freedom isn't Free! In memory of all those who served. Ron


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:37 am 
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The Knife
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Today marks the hard hat riots in NYC.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Hard+Hat+riot

Rad

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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:26 pm 
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yes , isnt it interesting that these 'support our troops' rallies/riots got little real credible coverage , our troops came home thinking no-one cared - there were lots who did they were nt afforded the press that hanoi jane and other commie sympathizers were afforded ,


and i am really tierd of this crap - "The American labor movement was deeply divided over support for President Richard Nixon's Vietnam policies. "

it was not nixons war - it was kennedy and johnsons war , they just left it to the conservatives to fix when they botched it


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:07 pm 
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Lance Cpl
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Unfortunately my brothers, history will not reflect whatever support was given by the Nation, and refers to "The Vietnam War" as a Loss and a major social conflict. There were no parades and very few welcome home's for the returning troops. Addtionally, it took nearly 10 years to erect "The Wall" as a rememberance. For many who served and the families of those who died, it was to little to late and for these reasons, over the many years that have past, it has been the tradition that Vietnam Vets Welcome each other home. You can Hate The War but Love the Warrior! Ron


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:33 am 
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OUTLAW
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this pissed me off more than anything else :twisted:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/vie ... 21-77.html

they should just got a rope.

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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:12 pm 
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Lance Cpl
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txpete, the amnesty program also included a two year commitment in the form of Government Work for these draft dodgers. They were trained and received jobs while many Veterans were in the unemployment line. A real slap in the face for those who served! Ron


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 11:02 pm 
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OUTLAW
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I was on staff duty when some of these dirt bags showed up at hunter AAF.they took them down to ft stewart for processing. :-x .

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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:40 am 
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Lance Cpl
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txpete, it sounds like we share the same sentiments. Although no one should have to follow blind leaderships, there is the matter of Patriotism. Many if not most of those who served in Vietnam were to young to analysis the validity of our involvement, they just served their country the way their forefathers did. For their sacrifices they were criticized and labeled by their own generation as War Mongers and Baby Killers and for those that came home alive, they were not received as Heros. In the meantime, the protestors and and dissentors got the attention of the press and credit for stopping an unpopular war. Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people whose family members died, were mentally or physically disabled and live with the history of a lost war. God Bless them all! Ron


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:45 pm 
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OUTLAW
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we didn't lose the war we weren't allowed to win.
there is a difference.
pete

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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:03 pm 
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Brigadier General
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amen pete , politicians wouldnt let us win it ,

".......Vietnam's gradual evolution, Alotta said, made it seem to some that "we were involved in a war that's not the United States' war."............"

well it sure as hell was ours when kennedy put us there in force


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:33 pm 
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Lance Cpl
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I agree with texpete and A square 10, anytime that you shed American Blood it is, Our War. The Press, The Politicans and the Protestors caused great restrictions on the way we were allowed to fight in Vietnam. However, we never lost a major offensive and we successfully repelled the TET Offensives of 1968 & 69, although, the press reported it differenlty because they had their own agenda. What is more important now after all these years, is that when a committment is made to fight then it should be with no reservations to complete the task and with the full support of the our Citizens. I don't know that we have learned that lession yet? Welcome Home, Ron


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:18 pm 
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Brigadier General
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just one last thought here ....

there will never be a "full support of our citizens" as we all know there are those among us that would cheer our demise ,

they started to be known in those times , they were commie instigators fighting on the home front , there were those that gave aid and comfort -hanoi jane - and these people have infiltrated and taken over kennedys democrat party ,

you can forget about full support - even when attacked there were those that blamed us , nothing has changed , its just that after half a lifetime vets have quit allowing scum like that to make them feel undeserving of their rightful respect


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 Post subject: Re: 35 years today
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:37 am 
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Lance Cpl
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Well stated A Square 10. My reference to Full Support from our Citizens is figurative. There are always dissenters that have questionable motives. I have watched many people from the last two generations of our nation become Liberal, irresponsible,disrespectfull and unpatriotic with the exception of those who served in Our Military. This all stemmed mostly from the decay in our Government and the Family Unit. I'm 65 and my generation was taught religious principals and family standards which include love of country. The fish stinks from the head down. We now have Governmental leadership that is a poor example of these virtues. Maybe I am old fashion but nobody better desecrate Our Flag on my watch. Washington is a Circus and we have many clowns on both sides of the aisle!
Where have all the Good People gone?


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