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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:47 am 
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Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 75
Greetings,

New member, first post. Looks like a nice place you guys have here. Hope I fit in ok.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gatsby,

I realize this is an older thread, but I see no update on any further info on the guns you posted about, thus this reply.
Your NEF 20 ga. was made in 1987.
H&R/NEF serial number decoding works off the letters that proceed the number.
"NB" identifies this weapon as an NEF (as opposed to "H" for H&R) and the "B" following it denotes the year 1987.
H&R's serial numbering system has been modified a few times over the years and this particular design of serial numbering started with the post banckruptcy era in the year 1986.
Your H&R 158 was manufactured between 1962 and 1973.
If you post the serial number, or at least the letters that proceed the numbers, I can pinpoint the year of mfg. for you (or you can PM the info to me, if you feel more comfortable doing it that way).
BTW, the letter prefix for the serial numbers goes back to 1940, when the prefix "A" was introduced.
Before that, its just numbers.
So...if you have an H&R and the serial number has no letter prefix, you know it was made no later than 1939.
Your Newport shares some striking resemblences to my grandfather's H&R model of 1915.
I've heard that replacement forearms for the H&R are available through Numrich Arms and the notched post sticking off the bottom of the barrel of your Newport is exactly what my grandfather's H&R has on it.
I'm wondering if you could make a replacement H&R forearm work on your Newport.
If you want, give me a measurement from that post to the receiver and I'll see if it matches my grandfather's gun. I'm betting it will.
One last thing about Harrington & Richardson.
I take it from your post, that you think "New England Firearms" is an old company.
Actually, ALL NEF guns are post-bankrupcy guns and thus, date no older than about 1986.
The way I heard the story is that when the orignial H&R filed for bankruptcy, they discovered they needed a new name for the company.
Not being able to use "Harrington & Richardson" anymore, someone decided, "well, we're located in New England, so lets just call it 'New England Firearms'."
Everyone agreed and plans were set into motion.
Well, about the time they're ready to start churning out NEF guns, someone says, "WAIT! No one (i.e., the buying public) knows what a 'New England Firearms' gun is. They may think its some cheapie from South America" (note: back then, S.A, weapons were mostly considered "Saturday Night Specials"). "We need to inform the buyer that its still an H&R gun".
A little research discovered that they could use a modified version of the old name and it would still be legal, thus "H&R 1871 Co." was born.
However, since the "New England Firearms" tooling was already in place, both names ended up being used in the new company.
This is why H&R 1871 is also the manufacturer of New England Firearms.
Truth or BS? I'm not sure, but its how I heard the story.
I do know one thing that is FACT - "New England Firearms" ceased to exist in 2010.
The announcement is still up on H&R's website.
Something tells me this is tied into the buyout of Marlin by Remington, since all of H&R's manufacturing recently moved to Remington's NY plant.
Since about the middle of last year, all guns made by H&R are now labeled as H&R guns.
The Pardner line still exists as it always has, only now its an "H&R Pardner".



Dean


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:40 am 
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Brigadier General
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:53 am
Posts: 3106
Location: Iowa, on the high ground
First off I'd like to say welcome to Yesterdays Weapons! We're a pretty easy going bunch of people, we're all very welcoming, and I'm sure you'll like it here!

Secondly thanks for the information! I really appreciate it!

I did know that NEF was a newer manufacturer, but I just worded it as 'older shotguns' since they were all my Dad's before he passed away, and he had came into possession of most of them before I recalled.

I'd be happy to get that serial number information for you, and a measurement on the Newport. Probably won't be till this weekend or next, as I'm pretty busy during the week, but I'd really enjoy finding out what turns out. :Dbounce:

I've done a little research on the Remington since I first posted, and as for that one, near as I can figure, its a Remington model 1893 #3

Thanks again for the information! I always enjoy it when somebody who knows, shares with the rest of us!

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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:15 am 
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The Knife
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And another :welcome: to you Dean. As Gatsby said we are a easy going group and always looking for info and we will also share what we know.

Rad

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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:54 pm 
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Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 75
Hey guys,

Thanks for the welcome.
---------------------------------------------

Gatsby,

Look forward to hearing back from you.
-----------------------------------------------------

HerrMesser,

From the looks of it, you may know a thing or two about Mauser rifles.
I'd like to pick your brain.
I'll see you over on the Mauser section of this site.



Dean


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Brigadier General
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:26 am
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Location: Minnesota , USA
and another , :welcome: , we need additional shotgun expertise , im sadly deficient but always interested


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:02 am 
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Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 75
No problem, Sarge.
I think anything with a Martini action definately qualify's as "old". :bigrin:
If its a Greener, it'll say so. Incursive writing, on the bottom of the receiver (I think).
Sounds like a nice ol' piece.

Dean


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:27 am 
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Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 75
I think if you look a little closer, you'll see that it actually says "SAFE", as it is telling you that the safety is now engaged.
Sometimes the lettering on older guns can be a bit hard to make out.
The numbers could be serial numbers, but without any other identifiers on the gun, like a company or model name, its hard to determine where the gun came from or who made it.
My hunch, however, would be that it was probably a product of the H.D. Folsum company.
This would date it to the late 19th / early 20th century.
These type of guns usually don't have much value, beyond the capacity of the purpose for which it was built in the first place.


Dean


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:14 pm 
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Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 75
Hey Mac,

That's a nice ol' shootin' iron!
I like the scroll work on the stocks and the patina of the metal, not to mention the darkening of the wood gives this gun a nice "classic" look.
However, with no other identifiers on it, I would say that my original impression stands.



Dean


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:05 am 
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Lance Cpl
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Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 1:20 pm
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HerrMesser wrote:
Is that H & R Topper 158 have a long barrel on it? I have one with an 18 1/2" barrel in 12 ga.

Rad

I had an H&R TOPPER that I had barrels in 30/30 .410, 12 gauge ,20, 16 gauge. back in the day you could buy them for $20.00 and just file on the locking lug till it would close and VIOLA!! then they would only send extra barrels to a gunsmith to be installed!!.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:30 pm 
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Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 75
toot wrote:
HerrMesser wrote:
Is that H & R Topper 158 have a long barrel on it? I have one with an 18 1/2" barrel in 12 ga.

Rad

I had an H&R TOPPER that I had barrels in 30/30 .410, 12 gauge ,20, 16 gauge. back in the day you could buy them for $20.00 and just file on the locking lug till it would close and VIOLA!! then they would only send extra barrels to a gunsmith to be installed!!.

WOW! Been a while since I've been here!
Anyway, I was told by H&R that they stopped selling barrels to anyone but gunsmith's because they found out people were putting Handi-Rifle barrels onto Topper/Pardner receivers.
Eventually, this became an in-house "barrel exchange" program.
The problem there is H&R actually made two different receivers.
In later years they were known as "SB1" and "SB2".
The SB1, which was used for the Topper/Pardner guns used a hollow receiver. Strong enough for shotshells and pistol caliber rounds, but rifle rounds work at a much higher pressure and those receivers were found to fail under constant use (from what I've heard, this is especially true with the post bankruptcy guns).
The SB2 was used in the Handi-Rifles and used a non-hollow receiver.
The added beef allowed those receivers to hold up to constant use of higher pressure rounds.
It also added about 2-3 lbs. to the weight of the gun, so if you think the difference is minor, think again!
In fact, when I wrote to H&R, they wouldn't even sell the rifle barrel, if they knew the gun it was to be fitted to were a shotgun.
The only way for you to do a 2-gun system with them was to buy a Handi-Rifle and then they would be more than happy to fit your existing shotgun barrel to that receiver (or you could just live with owning two complete guns, too).
While I've heard of many accounts of guys fitting .30-30 barrels to their 12 gauge Topper's with no ill effect, the practice is not recommended.


Dean


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:55 pm 
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Brigadier General
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 17087
Location: Minnesota , USA
OK , new guy is visiting old posts and bringing back so many great memories of folks we dont see posting anymore , this one is 11 years ago and i recall [after reread] so many great things about those days that i miss ,

thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:02 pm 
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Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 75
A square 10 wrote:
OK , new guy is visiting old posts and bringing back so many great memories of folks we dont see posting anymore , this one is 11 years ago and i recall [after reread] so many great things about those days that i miss ,

thank you

Nice to see you again, A Square.


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 17087
Location: Minnesota , USA
nice to see you too , your making my day with every great thing ive experienced here getting revived - there is some great info yo be found in these old posts as well , but i like seeing alll the old posts by folks that dont post anymore that once were very regular , so long ago and yet so vivid in my mind ------im starting to feel old here guys and gals


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 3:58 pm 
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Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 75
A square 10 wrote:
nice to see you too , your making my day with every great thing ive experienced here getting revived - there is some great info yo be found in these old posts as well , but i like seeing alll the old posts by folks that dont post anymore that once were very regular , so long ago and yet so vivid in my mind ------im starting to feel old here guys and gals

Well, my excuse is I got called back to this old post, but it is fun poking around this site again.
Oddly enough, I was just thinking about this place the other day.
Haven't been here in almost 10 years, but then, the other day, this place just popped into my head....then I got an email.....weird.


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:40 pm 
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Brigadier General
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:26 am
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Location: Minnesota , USA
glad your back - hang in and hang out we still have questions you can help with - im happy to see you ,


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 Post subject: Re: Old Shotguns...
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:48 pm 
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Sergeant
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:14 am
Posts: 75
A square 10 wrote:
glad your back - hang in and hang out we still have questions you can help with - im happy to see you ,

:ow: That's very nice of you. Thank you. =)


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