Yesterday's Weapons Forums

Discussion of history's firearms
It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:53 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:33 pm 
Offline
Gunnery Sergeant
Gunnery Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:14 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Oshawa
I'm having problems with an old 'unknown' shotgun: I can't get the bolt apart. The knurled knob turns, but the firing pin turns with it. I'm assuming the knurled knob is screwed to the pin and the joint is rusted tight. But shouldn't there be a flat or groove or ridge on the pin to prevent it from turning?

Attachment:
Mauser Gras shotgun.jpg
Mauser Gras shotgun.jpg [ 19.64 KiB | Viewed 316 times ]

This is what makes me think it is a Mauser Gras, although it isn't identical to mine.

This is mine:
Attachment:
FK 12840 shotgun bolt.jpg
FK 12840 shotgun bolt.jpg [ 22.88 KiB | Viewed 316 times ]

It has FK 12840 on the knob end, what looks like fjo 27374 under the bolt handle, and N.77634 on the pin end. Just above the bolt face retaining screw it has what looks like a star over 'M', over what looks like a diamond with a line coming out of the top corner. On the back of the knob end it has what look like 2 shields, one with a 'W' in it, the other with some unidentifiable mark (maybe a stag head?).

So here's my question: How do I disassemble this (beyond the bolt face and extractor - those come off easily)? I tried vice grips on the knurled knob and the rod visible between the two sections of the bolt, but as tight as I could get the vice grip on that rod, it turns before the knob comes undone. (I'm going to feel like a fool if it turns out the knob should turn clockwise :oops: ). I've had it soaking overnight in Deep Creep.

The gun works. I have been using a .45 Colt chamber sleeve/adapter in it. Although I think I need to turn the 2 3/4" sleeve down a bit on the end, to fit what is probably a 2 9/16" chamber. The end of the sleeve is rounded over but probably not far back enough. It is hellish hard to close the bolt on it. I won't use it again until I turn it down and I can close the bolt easily.

_________________
Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:26 pm 
Offline
Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:04 pm
Posts: 7859
Location: North Antelope Coal Mine
Hard to say without having it in hand... can you pull back on the cocking knob and rotate that? SW

_________________
Darkness is all around us and enemy are just beyond the perimeter.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:02 am 
Offline
Gunnery Sergeant
Gunnery Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:14 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Oshawa
NebrHogger wrote:
Hard to say without having it in hand... can you pull back on the cocking knob and rotate that? SW


If by cocking knob you mean the knurled knob, then no. If you mean the boss just ahead and above it, yes. That's what I pull on to expose that little bit of rod I clamp the vise grips on. The knurled knob, that rod and the firing pin act as if they are all one piece but I know at least the knob has to unscrew.

If I can't figure it out I'll just use it until the pin breaks. Then maybe drill a hole through that exposed bit of rod and put a pin through it to lock it in place while I crank on the knob.

(I think I mentioned in another post that on Father's Day my son gave me a Winchester 1892 in .44-40 :grin: . It's a habit I'm trying to encourage. 8-) )

_________________
Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:26 am 
Offline
Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
Теперь предлагаем бесплатную ежедневную маммографию!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:04 pm
Posts: 7859
Location: North Antelope Coal Mine
Having never seen one of these, that's all I got. I looked around for youtube vids, but couldn't find anything. SW

_________________
Darkness is all around us and enemy are just beyond the perimeter.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:41 pm 
Offline
Gunnery Sergeant
Gunnery Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:14 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Oshawa
NebrHogger wrote:
Having never seen one of these, that's all I got. I looked around for youtube vids, but couldn't find anything. SW


When I described it to my son he didn't know. But today I showed it to him and he immediately took it apart! :D Just put the pin on a hard surface and press down on the bolt body. The knob backs out of the bolt and simply slips onto a groove in the back of the pin.
:grin: :grin: :grin:

Attachment:
FK 12840 shotgun bolt disassembled.jpg
FK 12840 shotgun bolt disassembled.jpg [ 17.5 KiB | Viewed 297 times ]

(sorry about the out of focus :oops: )

Attachment:
FK 12840 shotgun bolt knob and pin.jpg
FK 12840 shotgun bolt knob and pin.jpg [ 16.96 KiB | Viewed 297 times ]


He also had some scraps of walnut that I can use to fill some gouges in the stock and take this out to the range tomorrow. I found I had some 250gr LSWC the right size, and some 200gr "APC" lead SWC, so I loaded up half my .45 Colt cases with one and half with the other. The "APC" ones seat the last ridge flush with the case mouth. I don't think I'll use them again.

It was fiddley work reloading since I don't have .45 Colt dies and .45 APC don't work at all. I had to ...very gently... expand the case mouth with a .38-.45 neck expander plug, seat them using a .41 Swiss bullet seating die and finally crimp them with a .44-40 Factory Crimp die.

Dang! I just realized I haven't turned down the chamber adapter to fit the 2 9/16" chamber, and won't get that done today. So I guess I won't be taking this to the range tomorrow after all. Maybe sometime next week I can take it to a machine shop ... or maybe Sean knows someone with a working lathe.

_________________
Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:05 pm 
Offline
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 16242
Location: Minnesota , USA
wow , i never would have gone there - i was scatchin my head on those first couple posts , glad you got it figured out ,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:29 pm 
Offline
Gunnery Sergeant
Gunnery Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:14 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Oshawa
A square 10 wrote:
wow , i never would have gone there - i was scatchin my head on those first couple posts , glad you got it figured out ,
Funny. Sean said something to the effect that that was a common way of arranging the firing pin. He also said turning the knob was how you adjusted the length of strike of the firing pin to resolve any problems of light strikes or of piercing the primers. I don't see that since the whole thing turns as a unit, not the knob against a ramped surface. Oh well. It isn't piercing the primers and I've only had one light strike so it isn't an issue.
KimFella wrote:
NebrHogger wrote:
Having never seen one of these, that's all I got. I looked around for youtube vids, but couldn't find anything. SW


When I described it to my son he didn't know. But today I showed it to him and he immediately took it apart! :D Just put the pin on a hard surface and press down on the bolt body. The knob backs out of the bolt and simply slips onto a groove in the back of the pin.
:grin: :grin: :grin:

Attachment:
FK 12840 shotgun bolt disassembled.jpg

(sorry about the out of focus :oops: )

Attachment:
FK 12840 shotgun bolt knob and pin.jpg


KimFella wrote:
He also had some scraps of walnut that I can use to fill some gouges in the stock and take this out to the range tomorrow.
Crap. Now I'm beginning to think the stock wasn't walnut at all. The walnut patches stand out like a sore thumb. :-(
KimFella wrote:
I found I had some 250gr LSWC the right size, and some 200gr "APC" lead SWC, so I loaded up half my .45 Colt cases with one and half with the other. The "APC" ones seat the last ridge flush with the case mouth. I don't think I'll use them again.

Funny thing, that. With a proper sized bullet and a published powder load it was much more accurate. Seventeen of 22 shots actually showed up on the target (about 6" high). And they all tumbled (at 25 yards), but the 200gr APC bullets aren't that much longer than their diameter so their key holes aren't that different from a 'proper' hole. The 250gr ones are longer and their key holes are much bigger. :-o

So here is the next question: would the tumbling just be from the chamber insert only having about 1 1/2" of rifling? Or would the expanding gases be able to get past the .452" bullet traveling down a couple of feet of 12ga. barrel and create turbulence? In either case fiddling with the load won't fix the tumbling (although I suppose I could try to find some .452" round ball and load those). I'm still trying to decide if it is worth fixing the shotgun (it doesn't even have the usual shotgun front bead) or just chalk the chamber adapter idea up to "Well, that was fun, but now let's do something else". The barrel does appear to have what looks like wrench rash inside it. Maybe I could cobble together a bore cast hone and hone that out.
KimFella wrote:
It was fiddley work reloading since I don't have .45 Colt dies and .45 APC don't work at all. I had to ...very gently... expand the case mouth with a .38-.45 neck expander plug, seat them using a .41 Swiss bullet seating die and finally crimp them with a .44-40 Factory Crimp die.

I suspect if I continue with this I'll break down and buy a .45 Colt die set. (Then I'll have an excuse ... er, I mean a reason, to buy a .45 Colt revolver. 8-)
KimFella wrote:
Dang! I just realized I haven't turned down the chamber adapter to fit the 2 9/16" chamber, and won't get that done today. So I guess I won't be taking this to the range tomorrow after all. Maybe sometime next week I can take it to a machine shop ... or maybe Sean knows someone with a working lathe.

Suddenly that isn't an issue. One of the guys at the range said the hard-to-close problem with the bolt was the extractor trying to jump over the steel rim of the adapter. Just manually fishing it under the rim before closing the bolt fixed that problem.

_________________
Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:08 pm 
Offline
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 16242
Location: Minnesota , USA
"...I suspect if I continue with this I'll break down and buy a .45 Colt die set. (Then I'll have an excuse ... er, I mean a reason, to buy a .45 Colt revolver. 8-) ..." i got one if your looking , like new and if i look probably have the box , its a cimmaron ----not ,meant as a FS add , just sayin , i bought two new ones this summer and might be willing to part with it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:07 pm 
Offline
Gunnery Sergeant
Gunnery Sergeant
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:14 pm
Posts: 216
Location: Oshawa
A square 10 wrote:
"...I suspect if I continue with this I'll break down and buy a .45 Colt die set. (Then I'll have an excuse ... er, I mean a reason, to buy a .45 Colt revolver. 8-) ..." i got one if your looking , like new and if i look probably have the box , its a cimmaron ----not ,meant as a FS add , just sayin , i bought two new ones this summer and might be willing to part with it


Thanks, but I chose the 8-) smiley because they don't have a 'wishful thinking/empty pockets turned out' smiley. :-(

If I ever find one cheap enough, and when I can see my way to spending even '$cheap-enough' I'd get a .44-40 Colt Frontier Six-Shooter for my son. (I did say somewhere on this board that he gave me a Winchester 1892 in .44-40 for Father's Day, didn't I? :grin: )

_________________
Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:38 pm 
Offline
Brigadier General
Brigadier General
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:26 am
Posts: 16242
Location: Minnesota , USA
good for you - will power and direction , congrats on that new one BTW


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group