Yesterday's Weapons Forums

Been thinking about buying myself a muzzle loader.
l always wanted to own and shoot one.
I checked Dutch and German gun shops in the last couple of months for an original muzzle loader.
Original meaning, not being a replica.
Reason for this is that an original one doesn't need a license.
I found a couple alright, but they were a bit too expensive for my budget.
So..........I decided to buy a replica.
This however means that I have to sell one of my fire arms on my shooters license.
We are allowed to own 5 and there are already 5 on my license.
I guess I'll have to sell my Mosin Nagant M91/30.
This one will have to make place for something like this.
Check this link.
It's a German auction site, but there are some great pictures that will tell the story.


http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3 ... 4dd202c54e

I'm still not sure what I'm going to buy, but this looks like something I'd like to own and shoot.
It's not only the rifle, but I have to buy all the necessary accessories too.

I'm not happy that I'll have to sell one of my Mosin Nagants, but I think I'll get something back that I will love to take to the range.

I'm completely new to muzzle loaders, so if you have any suggestions, please let me know.

I'll keep you all posted.


Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

Martin, I just had one similar to this here. I would hold out for an original. They can be found here probably less expensive than over there. Let us scour the interwebs & see what we can come up with. I would hate to see you part with 1 of only 5 !!!!!

http://www.frankonia.de/369390/504/prod ... oryId=7360

martin when I was in germany I bought several blackpowder guns from frankonia.the quality of the Davide Pedersoli were very good and worth the extra money.
I hunted with a T/C senca in 45 cal for several years here in texas.you have to watch the twist on the barrels.some are for round ball (patched) and the other are for maxi-balls.
I shot more round ball than anything else.the patches for the M60 machine gun (7.62) worked great .I would just take a plastic butter dish with a scoop of crisco and put it in the microwave oven and put it on high and melt the crisco into the patches.it really worked great and its cheap.
I cast all my own bullets/round balls for it just remember you have to use soft lead for casting for blackpowder.IMHO RWS makes the best caps then CCI.I think the RWS caps were hotter than the CCI's.I used blackpowder the most and I tried the pryodex stuff but the blackpowder just shot tighter groups in my rifle.

some stuff to chew on.


http://www.reloadammo.com/relblack.htm

http://www.reloadammo.com/relblac3.htm


http://www.blackpowderjournal.com/archi ... buy_ml.htm

http://www.blackpowderjournal.com/archi ... load01.htm

http://www.nmlra.org/

@ SfcMac

Thanks for your reply Mac.
I think you are right.
I’ll take some more time to find out what’s out there.
I’ve already checked many Dutch, German, Belgian and French gun shops and auction sites.
There’s always something they have that I like, but most of the time it’s either overpriced or not safe to shoot.
About exporting a BP rifle.
If the rifle is considered an antique in the US and if it doesn’t need a license over here, exporting it is no problem at all.
I bought a Dutch Beaumont rifle from NebrHogger a couple of years ago.
It passed customs without any problems and arrived safely.
I only had to pay about 20% import tax .....welcome to the Netherlands.

@ txpete

Thanks for the links Pete.
I put them all under my favorites.
I already found some great info in there.
I use Pyrodex P in both my Swiss Vetterli and Dutch Beaumont with great results, so this will be the powder I will start with as soon as I found the rifle with my name on it.
Getting the right caps and accessories shouldn’t be a problem.
Germany is only 20 clicks away and BP shooting is very popular over there.
Very strange that we talk about a united Europe knowing that 20 clicks from my home you can buy a replica and shoot it without owning a license.

A question on the twist Pete.
I want to shoot round balls.
What’s your advice on the twist??


@ Et2ss

Thanks very much for the links to Gun Broker Bruce.
Prices in there are extremely different from the prices that I see on this side of the pond.
I will definitely keep an eye on that one.
To be honest, I prefer an original over a replica and not just because it doesn’t need a license over here, but for that extra piece of history that is attached to it.
Besides that I agree with you that it really hurts to sell 1 of 5.
That’s another reason to look out for an original, but it’s not the most important one.

So…………I will keep checking all the links I received and if anyone sees or hears anything please let me know.
Thanks again all.


Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

Martin....go flintlock!!!!!....you won't be sorry!....i have one i built, and 2 more that i'm building!(soon)
and MAYbe even i will try to build a 1" bore wall gun........and then there's the ol 2-1/4" bore cannon i still have~

build your own~......track of the wolf web site..........go there and look around~ ahhhhh...heaven!

Martin, I pulled those links from the first 3 pages in this category.
There were like 67 pages total! I didn't have time to sort through them all.
Be patient, the right one will turn up. Meanwhile the US Federal reserve keeps printing toilet paper....errrrrr....I mean money at an alarming rate, the Euro exchange will be even better to your favour

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Browse.aspx?Cat=2322

Will do Mac.
I'll keep you posted.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

I'd like to add that the rifle in this link
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3 ... 4dd202c54e

Has a two piece fore end, Not the best arangement and not historically accurate.

I'd vote for finding a original antique in shootable condition over any but the highest quality replica rifles.
Avoid unicensed copies from India and Afghanistan, and also avoid Turkish made copies of French 18th century military arms, though the Turk guns were made at a real arsenal for military use and are of good quality, they are still copies with spurious markings.

Excellent target rifles were made in Europe during the Muzzle loader era. One of the finest I've seen used a reversed percussion lock with sheild to protect the shooter's eye from cap fragments or sparks when using the closely mounted peep rear sight.
One of those would likely cost less than a highly collectable military muzzle loader, and might be found at an estate sale.

Thanks for your reply Gun Nut.
I appreciate it.

I agree with you.
Like you I prefer an original antique over a replica.
I have to add that the replicas made by Pedersoli are of outstanding quality.
Next to that I prefer the military rifles over the civilian ones.

There are however 2 "problems" that I face.
1) Replicas need a license and my license has reached its maximum of 5 firearms.
2) Original antiques are , compared to for example US prices, extremely expensive.
Besides the collectors market there is no market(or a relatively small one) for these rifles.
Collectors pay top $$ or should I say top €€ for these rifles.
If you want to buy one for the range over here.....replicas are your first and cheapest choice.

So..........it's either selling 1 of 5 on my license and buy a replica, or wait until an original and affordable antique crosses my path and buy that one.
I prefer the last option.
I'm not in a hurry and besides that.........I can only spend my money once.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

Martin, the one in the first link is a real beaut!
The 2nd link sold for $704. Isn't that like 67 Euro?

The third link is one I would like to own!!!!!

Bruce,

I like the wood on the Kentucky long rifle in the 1st link, but I prefer (like you) the 1863 Springfield musket in the 3rd link.
I still have to save some money or..........your government has to print more.

$704.00 almost equals €67.00.
You just wait another week and see what happens.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

martin.............
make yer' own!..............


slow but FUN!!!!!!!!

here's my start~
the barrles will be 40cal 1:66 twist, 44" longs, swamped "b" weight...........*sigh* i look forward to the sandpapering...........and the feel of finished walnut is BETTER than rubbing paris's bare bottom........well, almost!

Go Big Or Go Home

Wes

WOW.....I wish I had the skills to do that Kaintuck.
The idea itself, making your own rifle, is great.
I will follow this project for sure.

I’ve been looking for an original antique for some time now, but they are either unfordable or the barrel looks like a badly maintained chimney.
I think I’ll just let it rest until the end of the year and if I haven’t found anything by then I’ll just sell my M91/30 to make room for a replica.

Keep those pictures coming Kaintuck.
I love to see a project like this develop.


Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

OK......an update on my muzzle loader project.
An original isn't going to work.
They are just too expensive.
Here's what I did so far.
I talked to a German gun dealer that I know very well.
He will check the German market for a used Pedersoli percussion pistol and rifle.
That's right pistol AND rifle.
The more info I collected about these muzzle loaders the more exited I got.
I decided to sell my Mosin Nagant M91/30 to make place for a Pedersoli percussion pistol.
To make place for a percussion rifle I will ask the police for permission to move my Polish WZ 48 .22 trainer to my collectors license.

Here are some pictures of what I'd like to buy.

Kentucky percussion pistol in cal .45



Kentucky percussion rifle in cal .45


I like the long rifles a lot.

Besides the Kentucky rifle I like the looks of the Alamo rifle too.

Alamo percussion rifle in cal .45


I have to wait what the German dealer has to offer though.
He knows what I like to buy so let's just wait what he comes up with.

I will keep you all posted.


Met vriendelijke groet,

Martin

I like the pistol! I have begun to build one with only the parts and part of a board for the stock.

Mine will be a left-handed flint lock.

I'm sure yours will look much nicer! SW