Yesterday's Weapons Forums

I've never seen one before, but here it is:

http://www.armslist.com/posts/2536943/s ... nd-bayonet

OK, what are you suppose to do with the sticker bit? Try a bayonet charge on the deer if you empty the mag. without hitting it?

i suppose it might be good backup - but does that mount not alter the harmonics of the barrel ?

No, it's definetely not a German bayonet.
I'm guessing French.
Still, it's an odd combination to say the least.
Maybe they wanted to emulate the old style european "hunting bayonets".
Or most probably they just wanted to look "awesome !".

BRGDS, A

"hunting bayonets" crossed my mind as well , but even the europeans stopped using those many moons ago , im voting just for fun factor

Of rifles made to take a bayonet/having one already fixed (qualifying statement), I can't think of many that were not stocked all the way up to where the blade attaches. A couple come to mind: (1) Italian Model 1891 Terni variant; (2) US M14 Rifle. The US M16 Rifle arguably has fittings right up to the bayonet mount. Others?

The day of the bayonet for all practical purposes seems to be over. Even as to guarding POW's, soldiers today couldn't get away with jabbing prisoners in the butt with one as GI's did with Germans in 1945. They'd probably get hauled before an international tribunal and get sued. After all, CNN would be there to record it.

There are so many more viable alternatives to closing with the enemy with cold steel, like having lots and lots of 5.56mm ammo. I'm sure close combat still exists; plenty of examples of it in the Vietnam War. But I don't think American soldiers patrolled with bayonets fixed.

We got about an hour of "thrust and parry" bayonet training at Fort Ord in 1969. I never saw a bayonet in Vietnam, but I was in the rear with the beer and the gear. Later when I was a National Guardsman, one time during drill we went out onto a lawn area and practiced probing for mines with a bayonet. If I ever encounter a minefield, I will call up the engineers.

Bayonets did see a lot of use, however symbolic, during the Vietnam War protests. Lots of Guardsmen and MP's with bayonets fixed on their M14's but I don't think much if any sticking went on. The OH Guardsmen at Kent State, IIRC, had bayonets fixed and they fired ball instead.

Then there's always opening ration cans.

Oh, did I ever tell you the story about the Buck knife in Vietnam? I'll save it for another post.

Looks like the bayonet I have for an 1892 Berthier. SW

The current Russian bayonets for the AKM are pretty good.
Clearly designed as a knife, not as a bayonet.
Vey good quality blade (unlike the previous models ...)
And of course they have an effective wirecutter.
You can get them here for 40 brand new in the factory sealed plastic bag.
I have one and I might get a second one. Just because, well, I like good knives and you always need a spare

A

I thought the Brits pulled a bayo charge recently.


Yep. Here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... oured.html

That's the idea !
A

The 1889 Belgian Mauser had this sort of bayonet, manufactured by a company in the U S A.
There were a number of hooked quilon bayonets for rifles designed pre WW1. Most countries quite using the hooked quilon before WW2, the Japanese kept using it though they also manufactured some bayonets without it.

This is not a very useful alteration for this rifle, but some civilian auto loaders like the Remington police rifles had more useful mounts.

Re. the British bayonet "charge" in Afghanistan, certainly an exception. If I read the text right, they never did close with the enemy, about whom the article says, "The insurgents melted away." But brave the men were. Young men, it points out; still of an age willing to do such things when ordered.

I figure theres a psychological distance to the idea of being shot, but everyone from Alley Oop on down is more than a bit scared of getting stabbed or cut.

Yes, the farther the physical distance, the farther the psychological, I'd say. From 25,000 feet altitude, the B-17 bomber crew never saw terror in the eyes of their human targets. My dad was a fighter pilot in the Pacific, and had gunned Japanese trucks and trains where he could see the faces of a terror-stricken enemy, but it wasn't close combat.

My own ethic is if I have one bullet left, I'm not gonna fix bayonet. And when that last bullet is gone, I'm gonna think of a way to go on sick call, if at all possible. I wouldn't be so afraid of sticking the other guy; I'm just chicken of my own stickin', you know, where the bayonet goes in and the other guy kinda twists it.

This was the problem, as Omar Bradley saw it, in WW2. American soldiers were more reluctant to close with the enemy than German soldiers were, usually. As the war went on, GI combat veterans got better at it. When German soldiers got cold feet, their sergeant was behind them with a pistol and a fist. Worse in the Russian Army, because their sergeants and commissars would use their pistols.

And that's about all a Nagant revolver is good for. That and waving heroically when leading a ground assault. SW

Over the years, I've read somewhere that the Nagant revolver was often used to shoot German POW's. Another technique was to drive an empty cartridge case into the back of the neck of a POW.

Not only POW's but just about anybody who stood in "their" way.
Still now, when something goes wrong, you can still hear my mother in law mumble "Thank you uncle stalin". And she's Russian ... (Well, Siberian Cossack actually)

A

I wouldn't underestimate the Nagant revolvers, not for the era at least.

As for retro fitting bayonets to civilian long arms, best example I've seen is a very large saw backed bowie knife blade mounted on a riot gun. The blade in that case being for ripping holes through dry wall and hollow core interior doors.
This reminds me of a case where a robbery crew was surrounded in a motel. They hacked holes through the walls of several ajoining rooms to get away.
The tactic is also useful in escaping from a house fire or hotel fire if the entry door to your room is blocked.

Theres nothing quite so vicious looking as a Winchester 1897 Pump shotgun with metal hand guard and mounted bayonet.