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Yesterday's Weapons Forums • View topic - M1903 springfield information need help!

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 Post subject: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Hey I'm new here and I have an old M1903 springfield rifle I'm rebuilding and researching for my senior project. I'm trying to find out some info about the individual rifle such as deployment records etc. But any kind of info or source location would be incredibly welcomed. All I know about the rifle is the bolt says U.S. springfield armory and it has the serial number 290659 so I know its a thirty ought six (dont know the shorthand) and was built in 1907 but thats about it. On the barrel it says SA, has the ordnance department symbol on it, then says 6-18 and then just an A. Does anyone have any idea on where to look for info on the rifle itself? Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:19 pm 
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First off thanks for dropping by our forum! :welcome:

A-Square 10 should be along to help soon. What little I know about them is that the barrel is Springfield. Replacement (or at least made) in June of 1918. I believe the calibre designation is 30.06

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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:55 pm 
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hi , im maybe able to inform a little but not by any means a definitive source , but ill offer what i can and if you like contact me ill give you some more intelligent sources than i - there are a couple here who are fairly well versed that may jump in to add and or correct me ,

for your project - its a little less easy than one might hope ,

this rifle originated in development as the experimental mauser type magazine rifle of 1900 , with an enfield type cutoff for the magazine feed , for the rimless mauser type cartrige - our previous adopted rifle used a rimmed cartrige like the enfields ,

originaly submitted for evaluation as the M1901 , for testing , and accepted as superior to the current-at-the-time krag bolt action rifles , very few of these exist today ,

the low number springfield rifle you selected does come up as a 1907 mfgr , these are of concern as to heat treat technology , safe after 800,000 is the rule of thumb , should be a nice script marking as opposed to later block letter rollmarks , it would have originally worn a straight grip stock [no pistol grip of any kind] with finger grooves on the forearm , and fitted with an M1905 bayonet [the very early M1903s were fitted with a rod bayonet like the late trapdoor rifles ] its 17" , bright polished blade and walnut grip scales that should show the machine cutting ,

the early M1903 rifles were designed for the M1903 ball ammo 30-03 round nose bullets till 1906 , then were switched to M1906 ball ammo with the pointed spitzer bullet , yours would have been made for 30-06 , so that assumption is good ,

short of these two changes there were no others till 1929 when the military adopted the M1903A1 with pistol grip stock ,

there were two main arsenals mfrgring , springfield in massechusets - the original government arsenal , then rock island [a small island in the center of the mississippi river between moline-rock island illinois and davenport-bettendorf iowa ]this was also a federal POW camp durring the civil war ,

that said this was re-barreled in june or after of 1918 , end of WWI , that could mean it served - and came back to be refurbished , but whether it served overseas or not it was re-arsenaled , this was the official US military rifle of that era [although WWI was the dawn of commercial contracts - another whole story of its own that leads you to the M1917 rifles ] and we were short of rifles during WWI so i cannot think it was sitting in storage , it served stateside or overseas ,

but , records were sparse and over the years those that might have added to your story were lost , the US did not unit mark there rifles as some other countries did in this era , so tracking the rifle will be hard to impossible beyond what the springfield armory offers in their shipping records , mostly tells you what branch by the depot it was shipped to ,

it will be near impossible to track the rifle to a specific unit let alone a specific individual ,

one could go on for hours typing the minutia , but the research will be fun , its an interesting era in american military small arms development[i think the most interesting] and one that was extreemly influential in our history ,
........................................
one quick question tho - you said "the bolt says U.S. springfield armory"

while i realise this may have been a novices misstype , i need to add that the US did not mark their 'bolts' such , only the reciever , if the bolt has markings its foreign use marks - and again i repeat i think a novice typo as they would not have put that on it , the bolt may be marked "NS" for nickle steel ?

BTW - you can use my photos from old posts if they are of help
rifle should look like the middle one here -
Image

and the bayonet should look like the top one here -
Image


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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:08 pm 
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Hey Asquare would this have the barrel sights vs the 03A3 receiver sights?
Nikoli any chance of a photop? That might help.



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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:41 pm 
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yes it would in a windage adjustable base of coarse , photos would be the next step we woould need to add further information ,

mine is wearing an early brass clawed M1907 leather sling BTW , this would have been correct for that era , and the buttstock trap has the nickled brass cleaning kit tube , also correct for that era , and used with the M1917 rifle as well ,

Image
Image
Image
Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:07 pm 
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hey thanks guys. and to answer your question a square you are right. I accidentally refer to the receiver as the bolt of the rifle. it does not say "U.S. Springfield armory" on the literal bolt that makes the cocking and firing action. I will see what I can do about a photo op. ummm.... just a heads up the wooden stock is not doing so well because my mother's stupid bull mastiff ate one piece from the fore-end and i believe he nawwed on some other part of the stock. I do know that my mentor (he works on more modern weapons usually but he has doen a rifle like this before) said we're going to blue the metal of the rifle so it'll look brand new. and about the brittle receiver that just adds another reason as to why this will never be fired. the rifle's threads that connect the receiver to the barrel are so incredibly loose i can twist them together as tight as it will go and then bare handedly unscrew them.and thanks guys

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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:09 pm 
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another thing. would you know where i might be able to find a bayonet or more importantly a stripper clip and sling for the rifle?

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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:45 pm 
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saving it i commend , you can find a stock , refinishing - only if its neccessary - that ruins the collectivity of these antiques , these are 100 year old rifles , they deserve some respect , but without seeing it i cannot comment further on that ,

as to the accessories - well they are out there , if you contact me i can send you an original brass charger 'clip' , they are available on numerous sites as well for about $1.00 each ,

same with the nicled brass cleaning kit , they run $35-65

as to the sling and bayo -
that depends on what you want in terms of these items ,

if you want an original sling you are looking at $125 give or take , and they can be found on numerous on line site - i can give you a couple that i trust to actually give you what you buy ,

if you want a reproduction for appearances consistent with your refinish id go to IMA USA they have excellent re-enactor items in both sling and bayo w/ scabbard

if you want an original bayonet and scabbard i can give you a couple honest sources for these as well , but you are looking at laying out $400-700 depending on the condition of each piece , if you buy the bayo without the scabbard be prepared to look long and hard for what you need as these on the loose are not so common as the later versions ,


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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 11:55 pm 
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hope you have been helped and inspired as most of us would jump at the chance to encourage a young collector , i wish id actually started paying attention when i was in high school , i had access , just seemed to find other interests , or even in college , it would have prevented some huge mistakes in my life in hind sight


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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 8:45 pm 
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yeah. thanks a square. the sling sounds like a must happen especially if i can find one from period. unfortunately i agree with you on leaving the rifle in its condition (the metal doesn't look too bad but the wood is in desperate need of reworking) but my project was only feasible if i completely restored the rifle. otherwise i would have to have done a different project and the poor rifle would never have been restored. :-? I will see what i can do about pics....might be able to get some on later tonight

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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 9:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:21 am 
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sounds a good candidate for a wall hanger that you can be proud of , id not dissuade you from this refurbishment effort under the added conditions you have revealed ,

saving it as is sounds unrealistic , as long as you are not restoring it to shoot it you can feel good about the project , this will be a very dangerous rifle to leave in any sort of fire-able or restorable condition , it would be best to weld an obstruction in the bbl and disable the bolt/firing pin ,

but going for an original rust blue metal and walnut stock will end up with a fine looking wall hanger and fitted with some accouterments would be terrific , go for the reproductions for re-en-actors - they are plenty authentic and cost substantially less ,

go for the M1905 bayonet and scabbard , the M1907 sling and if you can find the cleaning kit id slip that in the buttrap [but its not a vissible addition]
http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php ... cts_id/842

http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php ... ts_id/1045
or
http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php ... ts_id/1555

http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php ... cts_id/502


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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:29 pm 
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All Springfield 1903 rifles up to serial number 800,000 are referred to as low number rifles. Meaning that in that serial number range there were faulty rifle that caused the army to disscontinue use of them. If was found that the heat treatment of the receivers and heating of the barrels was causing the problem. As a results they were removed from service. For more information find a copy of Hatcher's Notebook and look this up. Same thing is true of 03'smade a Rock Island arsenal up to serial number 285,506. riceone

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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:33 pm 
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All right so here is the pics. its gonna take a few posts to put them all up because I have no idea how to work this thing.... There are no pics of the internals because they are in a box somewhere in my attic probably. I am also missing the upper handguard (i believe it is called this. its the upper wooden piece that attaches above th barrel) because my old dog ate that piece.


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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:34 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
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oic section 3


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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:35 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
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 Post subject: Re: M1903 springfield information need help!
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