Yesterday's Weapons Forums

Just picked this up Sunday at the Woodstock gun show. It may have been military once, but with the checkering on the stock I think is sporterized.

File comment: .297/230 stamped on the receiver

Unknown miliary small bore rifle.jpg [ 24.57 KiB | Viewed 11990 times ]

Does anyone know what it is? It has .297/230 stamped on the receiver and some (crown) B (crown) U (crown) G stamps as well. And what looks like U,3gr71/2.GJP m/71 on the right side of the barrel just above the stock, and what looks like 25 plus 3 illegible marks immediately below(hidden by the stock). (The J and the P are run together - i.e. only one vertical line)

The hand grip is obviously added after the fact.


Once I can find out what rifle it is I may be able to find out how to remove the bolt.

Bolt handle and chamber.jpg [ 28.08 KiB | Viewed 11990 times ]

Donnelly's Handloader's Manual of Cartridge
conversions doesn't list this caliber but an online search turns up many references to 297/230 Morris (short and Long) but none of the pictures look like this gun. I haven't slugged the barrel yet or cerrosafe cast the chamber. I'd like to get the bolt out and clean it first.

If it is a collector item I should leave it alone, but if it isn't, and I can make some ammo, and it shoots OK, then I'd like to clean it up, reblue it and refinish the stock. It's kinda cute and it has a neat peep sight.

It is about 40" long butt to muzzle.

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Possibly a Rook Rifle intended for thinning out those pesky rooks ( Brit crows) in the back yard. Is that a receiver sight?

I'll check tomorrow after I scoop the sidewalk - I believe this is a viable project for shooting.

Those rooks best be checking the fine print in their life insurance policies! SW

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Slava Ukraini!!

The image is too dark to make out any detail. Could you possibly take some more pic and compensate for the light background.
You need shots of the rear end of the bolt too and a top view.
It kind of looks like a Gras rifle.

All righty then! Just scooped the driveway & sidewalk & shuffled across the street to do likewise for our elderly neighbor, Minnie. Had a good workout ( had to be 2 tons of snow, minimum) and a shower & then hit my reference books.

The 297/300 is in fact a rook rifle round. It's listed in Barnes' "Cartridges of the World" and Nonte's "Cartridge Conversions". Both are necessary to any gun nut's library!

Mr Nonte shows making it from 22 Hornet brass. Trim to 1.69" and "expand to hold .300" balls or bullets".

A cheep way to proceed would be grab a set of Lee 7,35 Carcano dies & use the .300 expander on trimmed Hornet brass. Nonte lists 5 grains of Unique with an 80 grain ball. I believe you could dip it full of black - add a wax milk carton wad & seat a ball on that. Look around Grafs or Buffalo Arms for .300 round balls or mold for same.

Then get your rook call & show them how the rat chews cheese!

This will be a fun little rifle for you! If you ever tire of it.... SW

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Slava Ukraini!!

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Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.

That was just a guess based solely on the shape of the bolt handle. That is why a view of the cocking piece and front part of the bolt and side view of the action is necessary. It could just as well be an early mauser or Chassepot.??

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Graduated 0 - 80.jpg [ 30.26 KiB | Viewed 11970 times ]
I Know. Crappy photography. The graduations go from 0 to 80, although the peep itself doesn't reach the top or the bottom. It goes from about 10 to about 60. And anywhere below 40, the fixed iron notched sight blocks the view.
Model 19.jpg [ 28.88 KiB | Viewed 11970 times ]
Whatever make it is, it appears to be a model 19? '19' stamped on the frame in line with the windage nuts, and '1' and '9' stamped in the upper corners of the frame.

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Fold-down sight.jpg [ 20.01 KiB | Viewed 11970 times ]
Two notched iron rear sights. The lower one is fixed and the taller on is infront of it and hinged to fold down or up.
Two rear sights.jpg [ 34.6 KiB | Viewed 11970 times ]

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Top View Bolt closed and bolt open
Top view - bolt open.jpg [ 43.48 KiB | Viewed 11969 times ]

Top view - bolt closed.jpg [ 47.08 KiB | Viewed 11969 times ]

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Side view, bolt open and a better view of the bolt face
Side view - bolt open.jpg [ 56.07 KiB | Viewed 11969 times ]

Bolt face.jpg [ 34.48 KiB | Viewed 11969 times ]

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And a view of the cocking piece turned to the side. It will turn to either side
Cocking piece turned to the side.jpg [ 73.41 KiB | Viewed 11969 times ]

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Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.

Thanks for the pics. They are a great help. I will get back to you as soon as I sort through the usual suspects. Anyone else can join in the chase.

Well, I checked my meager resources and I got nothing. It looks like a mannlicher design, but someone more experienced in this area should be able to give more information. I suspect this was a purpose built for training and target practice.

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Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.

Success!
Once I took the trigger off I could see that the extractor was accessible through a slot in the bottom of the receiver. If I held the tip of my tongue just so, and with j.u.s.t a little pressure I could press and wiggle the extractor through that slot until it pushed up into the slot in the bolt, and then the bolt would move far enough back that the extractor fell through the slot and the bolt was free to pull out.
Bolt, extractor and extractor slot.jpg [ 62.02 KiB | Viewed 11949 times ]

Extractor slot top view.jpg [ 67 KiB | Viewed 11949 times ]


I still need to find out what rifle I have. If it is a collectible I shouldn't mess with it (not likely going to try to 'restore' it) any more, but if it isn't, or if I never find out, then I'd want to clean it back to bare metal and then re-'rust-finish' it. It looks nice with brown metal. A blued finish might just be a bit ostentatious. The stock looks pretty good, with some character dings and pannache scratches. Just strip it and refinish.

Unfortunately the camera batteries died before I could get better pictures of the various stampings on the metal parts.

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Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.

Heck, I'd just clean it up well & declare jihadh on rooks! SW

_________________
Slava Ukraini!!

_________________
Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.

I had the Donnely book & was underwhelmed - gave it away. The not to scale drawings are a turn off as are other features. Check around online for "Cartridge Conversions" by Nonte. It's very much better & I highly recommend it!

That will be a fun little rifle! SW

_________________
Slava Ukraini!!

_________________
Them that know, know that they know. Them that don't know don't know they don't know.