Now for one of the controversial models: the Italian 7.9 conversions. This post does not include the German Kreighoff conversions - we'll discuss those later.
You see a lot of advertising on these that is just wrong. Like the Italians converted them so they could use German ammo... they were used in Russia or N Africa... all wrong. Not all the advertising is blatant BS - some folks just prefer to believe the 1st story they heard and advertise accordingly.
These were converted post-war - 1950... possibly as late as 1954 by a company hoping to cash in on post-war surplus. All the wild stories aside, we know many went to Egypt or Syria where they were used as trainers.
The trainers are easy to spot because they all normally all beat up and they will have vestiges of white paint on the stock which is the remains of the Arabic word "taleem". Meaning "training" or a similar concept.
Just about all the 7.9 conversions have very good bores. For at least two reasons: 1) no clips were ever made for 8x57 Mauser and 2) these have a vigorous recoil due to the light weight.
Are they safe to fire? Possibly. Headspace and bore diameter need to be carefully checked as they are often out of spec. If everything is of the proper measurements, you may blast away with a happy heart... if not a happy shoulder. Again, recoil is considerable. In the cav carbines, I use only light cast loads. I think surplus Turk 8mm ammo would be a real flamethrower in the cav carbine! In the end, the action is stout enough for the hot ammo.
For some reason, all of these are by FNA-B. More were made than I originally thought, too. Something like 10,000 cav carbines were converted, and maybe 25,000 or so M91-38TS. You will see many from the RA and RB letter blocks as well as some with just a low serial number with no letter prefix. There are very few markings on some, and these were not scrubbed for clandestine purposes - they were just made very late in the war. I suspect some with electro-pencil markings were made from parts on hand, but that's my own speculation not supported by anything in print.
Most have two added recoil lugs to address recoil issues. Those lacking same stand a real chance of stock breakage with hot milsurp ammo. Look also for an 'S' on the bolt root and a cutout on the receiver ring for the longer bullet.
I've heard some went to Isreal and will have a small Star of David on the receiver ring, but I can't confirm that. I've never actually seen one for sale on the auctions.
One story went that Isreal was desperate for any kind of rifle, and bought a quantity of these... without clips. Realizing the mistake, they then managed to sell them to Egypt & Syria for trainers. I have doubts about that story given the timeline of the Israeli/Arab fighting vs when these were actually made. That and the parties involved were not on cordial terms by any means.
Controversy aside, the advanced Carcano collection should include at least one cav carbine and one TS. **More for you die-hards out there, of course!
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Prices are still moderate for this model and rightly so. As of this writing, I just wouldn't get too carried away price-wise as there seems to be a fair supply available at auction.
Pics to follow as time allows. SW
Aug 18...Time allows. One error that pops up repeatedly is that the RA letter block is for the Regia Aeronautica or Royal Airforce. Hogwash. In spades! RA is just the letter block used by FNA for reasons known only to themselves. All Carcano letter blocks are for 9,999 rifles except the RA block. This one carried on into the high 90,000s for some reason.
And it was followed by - oddly enough - the RB letter block. Very few of those around, though. I've never seen one that was not a 7.9 conversion. You find an RB series still in 6.5, grab it!
Notice closely the RA letter block TS shown... the barrel is marked FNA-B. There are vestiges of other markings which is normal since they seem to have re-bored whatever bad barrels were still laying around.
Makes a lot of sense. There was already a hole through the barrel which could be more easily enlarged and rifled.
But look at the electro pencil number. That's the TNI stamp from Terni! So what was a Terni receiver doing in the FNA arsenal? Hard to say.
And the barrel is dated 1941.
In discussions with other collectors, it seems there are more than a few Terni parts floating around. Possibly some rifles from Terni in for refurb when the war ended. Possibly one of the companies making the conversions bought a bin of parts from Terni and used as needed. I doubt we will ever know. Always look for the Terni mark on the 7.9 conversions!
So there are inconsistencies in this model. One of the reasons I like it!
SW